Recording with a sideways stereo mic.

[lkingston]

I recorded this with an AT8022 stereo mic sideways: one capsule pointed up at my mouth, the other down at the guitar. Both sides were panned center, mixed slightly (my voice was louder), and I added a little reverb.

I’ve been trying all sorts of different (mostly low end) mics and placements, but I think I like this as much as anything I’ve tried.

In particular, since the mic is stereo end address, I like the fact that it takes up so little space in the video frame.

I am tempted to try the more expensive BP4025 mic since it would have larger diaphragms.

Has anyone else experimented with a sideways stereo mic for guitar and vocals?

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=594551

[lkingston]

Other details: I used a guitar strap shortened a little so that the guitar was slightly above my lap (to avoid lap squeak). I like the way the slightly raised guitar fits in the video frame better anyway. It also seems to be very easy to play the guitar in the higher position.

The camera was a ZV-1 recording at 4K and cropped ever so slightly, then downrezzed to 1080p. The light source was a window right in front of me. Color was as it came off the camera.

I recorded into a Zoom H6 at 24bits. Both channels were set to mono. I only hear out of one ear, so I have to use mono. The headphones are Bose active noise reduction ones. I love the active noise reduction when I am tracking. I have both reduced hearing and hyperacusis (inability to handle loud sound). I find I sing better in pitch if I use headphones, and the noise reducing headphones let me really concentrate on the sound.

I edited with Luma Fusion on my iPad. Luma Fusion is going to add Audio Units support in the near future, but for now, I export the audio into Ferrite Pro Audio, render a reverb wav, then import the reverb wav back into Luma Fusion and mix in just a bit.

[rick-slo]

Watched the video. Sounds good and nice performance. The mike setup seems effective. If you added reverb to your vocal
and not to the guitar (sounds like that) I would reconsider doing that.

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Watched the video. Sounds good and nice performance. The mike setup seems effective. If you added reverb to your vocal
and not to the guitar (sounds like that) I would reconsider doing that.

I added reverb to both the guitar and vocal equally. The reverb is an IOS Audio Units plugin designed by the same guy that did the excellent Valhalla reverb VST for computer DAWs. It is turned down pretty low. My own taste is to just be able to barely hear the reverb on both guitar and vocals.

With the sideways stereo mic, the top channel is heavier on vocals and the bottom channel is heavier on guitar, but there is of course a lot of bleed across both mics. I can't really separate the reverb feed from both mics, but I could put slightly more reverb on one than the other. Do you think I should do this (have more reverb on the vocal for instance)?

[rick-slo]

There is an echo like sound to the voice whereas the guitar sounds dry. Try not panning R and L inward. You just end up with a mono sound with the reverb added and that sounds odd.

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

There is an echo like sound to the voice whereas the guitar sounds dry. Try not panning R and L inward. You just end up with a mono sound with the reverb added and that sounds odd.

I believe that is because I sing louder than I play, so you hear more natural room ambience on the voice. I only hear out of one ear, so stereo stuff is lost on me. There should be no phase issues with the XY mic. Minimizing the room ambience is why I like the SM7B so much. I can’t think of a way to eliminate it with the condenser mic outside of acoustically treating the room, which I don’t want to do since it is also a guest bedroom and we live in a rental.

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by lkingston

I believe that is because I sing louder than I play, so you hear more natural room ambience on the voice. I only hear out of one ear, so stereo stuff is lost on me. There should be no phase issues with the XY mic. Minimizing the room ambience is why I like the SM7B so much. I can’t think of a way to eliminate it with the condenser mic outside of acoustically treating the room, which I don’t want to do since it is also a guest bedroom and we live in a rental.

With a XY mike all the more reason not to pan in L and R. As far as the room ambience causing the issue that is likely. Not sure if reverb highlights it though.

[lkingston]

How would you change the balance of the reverb? I used a small hall setting. Do you thing another setting might be better?

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by lkingston

How would you change the balance of the reverb? I used a small hall setting. Do you thing another setting might be better?

Just have to experiment - no reverb, amount of reverb, different reverb. Best of course would be a better room to record in.

[lkingston]

On this Johnny Nash tribute/cover, I added reverb to just the guitar mic capsule (which has a lot of vocal bleed) in order to bias the reverb more towards the guitar.

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=594664

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by lkingston

I recorded this with an AT8022 stereo mic sideways: one capsule pointed up at my mouth, the other down at the guitar. Both sides were panned center, mixed slightly (my voice was louder), and I added a little reverb.

I’ve been trying all sorts of different (mostly low end) mics and placements, but I think I like this as much as anything I’ve tried.

In particular, since the mic is stereo end address, I like the fact that it takes up so little space in the video frame.

I am tempted to try the more expensive BP4025 mic since it would have larger diaphragms.

Has anyone else experimented with a sideways stereo mic for guitar and vocals?

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=594551

I have some thoughts.

First for clarification
Im not sure what a sideways mic is ? But that doesn't matter .

You say mic is end address, so I assume the respective capsules basically at 90 degree angles pointing out the end of the mic , one up and one down ?

I agree the room is probably adding an unwanted reflection/echo that is showing up more on the vocal.


Question, it looks like your back is fairly close to a corner , and the camera is more out in the center of the room ? If so you might think about getting you and mic further further out in the room and away from the corner and if possible not pointing the mic into the corner.

I would first see If I could by repositioning mitigate the room affect more, before trying to add reverb to the tracks

As far as balancing the reverb in general the best method for balancing reverb for two different instruments (like voice and guitar) is by putting the reverb on an Aux track "in parallel" and then adjust amount each individual track is sending/bussing to it.

You can of course put reverb on each track and simply adjust the wet/dry % to balance but this is far more easily accomplished when you can hear the effect in real time before having to render it .

Both ways are simple with a full featured DAW because your reverb effect can be monitored in real time in context with both original tracks playing and so you hear the effect and then adjust to get them balanced before rendering and then importing into a video editor .


I am not familiar with Ferrite but from a quick google, I could not find any mention of the ability to use sends, busses, or aux tracks.

So if you can't monitor/hear the effect in real time
Another thought is forget about trying to separate the guitar and vocal roll the mic over so the capsules are horizontal instead of vertical and just balance the guitar and vocal by adjusting the height of mic to get the volume balance

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by KevWind

I have some thoughts.

First for clarification
Im not sure what a sideways mic is ? But that doesn't matter .

You say mic is end address, so I assume the respective capsules basically at 90 degree angles pointing out the end of the mic , one up and one down ?

I agree the room is probably adding an unwanted reflection/echo that is showing up more on the vocal.


Question, it looks like your back is fairly close to a corner , and the camera is more out in the center of the room ? If so you might think about getting you and mic further further out in the room and away from the corner and if possible not pointing the mic into the corner.

I would first see If I could by repositioning mitigate the room affect more, before trying to add reverb to the tracks

As far as balancing the reverb in general the best method for balancing reverb for two different instruments (like voice and guitar) is by putting the reverb on an Aux track "in parallel" and then adjust amount each individual track is sending/bussing to it.

You can of course put reverb on each track and simply adjust the wet/dry % to balance but this is far more easily accomplished when you can hear the effect in real time before having to render it .

Both ways are simple with a full featured DAW because your reverb effect can be monitored in real time in context with both original tracks playing and so you hear the effect and then adjust to get them balanced before rendering and then importing into a video editor .


I am not familiar with Ferrite but from a quick google, I could not find any mention of the ability to use sends, busses, or aux tracks.

So if you can't monitor/hear the effect in real time
Another thought is forget about trying to separate the guitar and vocal roll the mic over so the capsules are horizontal instead of vertical and just balance the guitar and vocal by adjusting the height of mic to get the volume balance

It is an end address XY mic. Thus the capsules are oriented so that the end points towards what you want to capture, but one mic is pointed 45 degrees to the right, and the other is 45 degrees to the left. I rotated the mic 90 degrees sideways so that one mic capsule pics up 45 degrees above, and the other 45 degrees below. Thus one capsule is pointing on an up at my mouth, the other pointing down at the guitar. That's what I meant by "sideways".

It's basically just an uncluttered way to do a typical two mic setup.

My voice is louder than my guitar, and that's why the mic is closer to the guitar. I also am placing it for proximity emphasis of the low frequencies in order to bring out my fingerstyle thumb bass lines.

The wall and the corner may look close behind me, but I am close facing a window for light and my back is as far away from the wall and the corner.

Did you listen to it? I'm pretty happy with the recording quality.

[lkingston]

A better title for this would have been "Vertical XY miking of singing and guitar with an XY stereo mic".

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by lkingston

It is an end address XY mic. Thus the capsules are oriented so that the end points towards what you want to capture, but one mic is pointed 45 degrees to the right, and the other is 45 degrees to the left. I rotated the mic 90 degrees sideways so that one mic capsule pics up 45 degrees above, and the other 45 degrees below. Thus one capsule is pointing on an up at my mouth, the other pointing down at the guitar. That's what I meant by "sideways".

It's basically just an uncluttered way to do a typical two mic setup.

My voice is louder than my guitar, and that's why the mic is closer to the guitar. I also am placing it for proximity emphasis of the low frequencies in order to bring out my fingerstyle thumb bass lines.

The wall and the corner may look close behind me, but I am close facing a window for light and my back is as far away from the wall and the corner.

Did you listen to it? I'm pretty happy with the recording quality.

Yes the overall quality is pretty good .
Yes I got you had the capsules pointed up towards your mouth and down towards just had never heard it call sideways


And yes listened but so far only on my laptop ear buds I'll check it out on my system HD and monitors tomorrow. But Like Rick I heard an echo on the vocal that to me sounded just a bit odd .

[Rixtoy]

Two thoughts:

1) When you ask for comments, don't be surprised by getting comments*.

2) Forget the comments - I liked the end product.

* I have withheld my comments . . .