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  #16  
Old 10-02-2020, 08:42 AM
Fixedgear60 Fixedgear60 is offline
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Very cool design... very organic looking and always a sucker for an open headstock. Love the minimalist design and interesting place for pick guard. Look forward to Evan's review ;-). The price is aligned to what we are seeing for Lowden guitars and some of the wonderful veneer designs from Emerald
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  #17  
Old 10-02-2020, 09:20 AM
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I am interested in the Canna. I think that hemp is every much as viable as linen for composite construction. The wooden pieces/parts may be the weak link in the composite makeup. And it's always dangerous to be the first scout.

But the style and sound are intriguing and I have made contact with Jakob who seems open to dialogue. I've suggested that he might want to answer some of the questions posed on this forum.

I would also appreciate all the sleuthing possible by you folks. It would be a big step for me to move in this direction, but an exciting one. Help wanted.
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  #18  
Old 10-02-2020, 06:20 PM
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Just finished going to the Canna site and checking out the HEMPSTONE thread. Interesting stuff.
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  #19  
Old 10-03-2020, 03:05 PM
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Steel brought the guitar to our attention, AC has put it on the list, I'm scouting.

While I find the design intriguing and think the guitar is quite beautiful, I have reservations.

In checking out Hempstone I find that it is primarily used in construction as an additive with concrete. The use is not structural. At first I thought that the hemp guitar might be like the Ekoa, based on pressurized fiber cloth. But Hempstone is basically pulverized hemp mixed with water and sprayed on a mold. I'm not sure how shatterproof the instrument would be. As the material is formed with water I also wonder if the body is subject to humidity.

I love the look of the headstock, but I can't help but wonder about its durability--it seems vulnerable to cracks and seams.

I'm also unsure of the tuners. In the pictures of the Classical model it looks like the strings are about to slip off the peg.

All of that wonderment gives me pause. It looks like the company is relatively new and I do not see any forums or testimonies by owners.

In short, I would need more information or considerable incentive to jump for the Canna. A road trip would be nice.
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  #20  
Old 10-03-2020, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanB View Post
Steel brought the guitar to our attention, AC has put it on the list, I'm scouting.

While I find the design intriguing and think the guitar is quite beautiful, I have reservations.

In checking out Hempstone I find that it is primarily used in construction as an additive with concrete. The use is not structural. At first I thought that the hemp guitar might be like the Ekoa, based on pressurized fiber cloth. But Hempstone is basically pulverized hemp mixed with water and sprayed on a mold. I'm not sure how shatterproof the instrument would be. As the material is formed with water I also wonder if the body is subject to humidity.

I love the look of the headstock, but I can't help but wonder about its durability--it seems vulnerable to cracks and seams.

I'm also unsure of the tuners. In the pictures of the Classical model it looks like the strings are about to slip off the peg.

All of that wonderment gives me pause. It looks like the company is relatively new and I do not see any forums or testimonies by owners.

In short, I would need more information or considerable incentive to jump for the Canna. A road trip would be nice.
Maybe I added it to the list a bit hastily. I didn't double check till now.

Hempstone is hemp + lime (calcium carbonate--think Tums) + water

I guess if we really, really stretched the definition of composite from what we normally expect a composite to be--it could be that. But I'm going to backtrack after doing my homework. I think the durability and even resistance to moisture is not going to impress anyone thinking carbon fiber or Ekoa, etc.

Sorry, but it's coming off the Carbon Fiber List.

Thanks Evan for the heads up.
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  #21  
Old 10-03-2020, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ac View Post
Sorry, but it's coming off the Carbon Fiber List.

Thanks Evan for the heads up.
I'm inclined to agree, after digging into it more myself.
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  #22  
Old 10-03-2020, 05:43 PM
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Let's not be hasty. This guitar is unique in many ways and worth discussion as a composite. It may not feature the durability we expect from CF or Ekoa, indeed, may be a number of steps back in terms of fragility. But it might also be a stunning instrument, up with the high-line classical guitars. I'd keep it on the list just for curiosities sake.
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  #23  
Old 10-03-2020, 06:19 PM
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It is another composite alternative but certainly should be weighed in comparison to all the the things we already love about carbon fiber or ekoa or lyrachord. Materials that are impervious to the elements is what we like in a guitar on this subforum. I don't know how well these guitars will hold up in a dry or humid environment, or if that is even their market, but if they are sensitive to water maybe a good coat of polyurethane would at least seal the exterior of the guitar (and heck the interior if not a tone-killer).

I guess what I'm saying is maybe we should cut these instruments some shellac.
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  #24  
Old 10-04-2020, 05:13 AM
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It would seem these are definitely not a standard build wood instrument and would tend to being a bit more durable than most high end wood guitars. I think they should stay on the list, if you include Klos with wood parts and Blackbird ekoa(I know, still very durable and I like what Joe and company do) then these are at least worth people being aware of, IMO.
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  #25  
Old 10-04-2020, 08:52 AM
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A Hempstone search shows that it is touted as a replacement for cement with a focus on building THICK walls for buildings like homes. The marketing emphasis is on green sustainability and CO2 friendliness--not on strength, humidity resilience, etc. It's promoted mainly as something that can be used that is a green replacement for cement. That's what is promoted as its greatest selling point.

The only technical data I found was related to its strength properties compared to concrete. Can it bear the weight of a roof, etc. It also is NOT resistant to water and cannot be used where it is too wet.

Photos of the material resemble ground wood pulp. You buy it in bags along with bags of lime powder. At a building site you mix it all together with water like a fibrous concrete and then work to flatten it all into a very thick layer that is several inches thick on a flat surface. After drying several days, it will be your wall that you lift up and fit into place when building a home. They said it is porous and breaths and is a better insulator than just concrete. This reduces the needed amount of insulation like fiberglass batting and such.

Hempcrete is essentially Hempstone. You can read for yourself about the material here:

https://gharpedia.com/blog/hempcrete-pros-cons/

This was the best information I could find. You need to read and at the same time try to imagine this material being used like Ekoa or CF in any meaningful way. When we think of the advantages of composites for guitars, we normally think of strength, resistance to damage, moisture proof, and light weight.

Read the article again and ask yourself how the hemp material compares in properties. I hold that it is outside the spectrum for the CF List.

Klos uses CF to replace the most fragile and moisture sensitive part of the entire guitar, the body and top. If their top were wood, they wouldn't be on the list either.

The neck is the least susceptible guitar part in terms of moisture changes and is inherently stronger than the body and top as it is a thick, solid piece of wood. So overall, Klos crosses the line where it counts and fits in the composite instrument world. Yes, a Klos composite neck would be better and this was discussed by many early on. It would be very welcome by almost everyone. But Klos focused on the most critical areas where composite materials make the most real, most important differences, and then used wood elsewhere to keep costs down for their target buyers.

Blackbird guitars are 100% composite. Full moisture protection, stronger than wood, etc. If they had used hemp fiber instead of flax with nothing else changed, it would be no problem.

But at this point, Canna has a questionable "composite" body, a wood top, wood neck and head. Even if the body specs finally show it's has reasonable composite properties similar to Ekoa or CF, the top is still wood. The double top may have some moisture resistance improvement over a solid wood top, but strength, its resistance to cracking, breaking--still isn't in the league of CF or Ekoa. That air pocketed Nomex layer is VERY thin. There are a number of top class wood classical guitars made with the same double top material. I wouldn't put any of them on this list.

Based on the materials Canna uses, I'm not persuaded they fit into the spectrum of guitars that are a fit for the CF List. Their products are just too far out. They may fit better on some other list.

There was another guitar in the past that was excluded for similar reasons, but I forget the name.

None of this is said to denigrate the Canna guitars. They are interesting, handmade, great sounding guitars (from the videos), and I hope they do very well.
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  #26  
Old 10-04-2020, 10:58 AM
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AC;

It's clear that you have given the Canna some serious thought and I trust your judgment. However, with your indulgence, I would make one last appeal for inclusion in the composite list.

First, the guitar does not fit any other classification. Just as CF was met with considerable resistance by traditional guitarists the Canna is not likely to gain much traction with classical guitar players. While not being a pure composite, it is primarily a composite guitar.

I would also argue that one of the biggest attributes of CF Ekoa, and other composite instruments is that they are different. The Canna is obviously different and like other composite instruments might well evolve with discussion on forums like this. Composite guitars have succeeded because people like Kramster and the captain have been willing to risk something new and forums like this one have enabled discussion that would not take place in traditional conversations.

That's my final plea. Thank you for the list and you tolerance for argument.
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  #27  
Old 10-04-2020, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvanB View Post
AC;

It's clear that you have given the Canna some serious thought and I trust your judgment. However, with your indulgence, I would make one last appeal for inclusion in the composite list.

First, the guitar does not fit any other classification. Just as CF was met with considerable resistance by traditional guitarists the Canna is not likely to gain much traction with classical guitar players. While not being a pure composite, it is primarily a composite guitar.

I would also argue that one of the biggest attributes of CF Ekoa, and other composite instruments is that they are different. The Canna is obviously different and like other composite instruments might well evolve with discussion on forums like this. Composite guitars have succeeded because people like Kramster and the captain have been willing to risk something new and forums like this one have enabled discussion that would not take place in traditional conversations.

That's my final plea. Thank you for the list and you tolerance for argument.
Well, I think time might persuade me to include it, but actual time is needed for that to happen.

Hempcrete (Hempstone, see https://hempstone.net/ ), is a brownish, partially organic substitute for concrete. Maybe concrete will be the new horizon for building guitars. But concrete being defined as a "composite" should then provide roughly equivalent advantages to what we have come to appreciate from composites--at least on this subforum, IMO, Hempcrete isn't close yet.

I thought of that suggestion to add a plastic coating to the Hempcrete to help protect it from moisture, but we actually already do that with Martins, Taylors, etc. In fact, we completely cover everything with plastic coating to the extent that the human hand is never actually touching real wood. You see real wood, but you never touch it. It's only flesh to plastic (non-Richlite fretboards excepted).

I don't think coating is the answer or we might begin to consider to include Martins, Gibsons, Taylors, etc. They would become equally composite in a sense.

As I said, maybe after some time passes, my understanding will become better informed regarding Canna.
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  #28  
Old 10-04-2020, 02:55 PM
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Good answer AC. There are a lot of questions with this particular instrument and not much of a sample to work with. thanks for your time and dedication with the list. I think the list should have a permanent spot at the beginning of Carbon Fiber forum.
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  #29  
Old 10-04-2020, 03:13 PM
Fixedgear60 Fixedgear60 is offline
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In short, I would need more information or considerable incentive to jump for the Canna. A road trip would be nice.
Evan... I think that is very wise. I did not buy my various eKoa ukes and guitars till after I met with Joe at his shop and play some of his shop models. Joe is a GREAT guy and was kind to spend 90 + minutes with me chatting about how the instruments are made and giving me the tour of the shop. He also stands 110% behind all his work! Even in some cases with second hand instruments he has made.

As my father used to say... measure twice/cut once :-). Looking forward to your continued adventures!

Last edited by Fixedgear60; 10-05-2020 at 03:51 AM.
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  #30  
Old 10-07-2020, 09:27 AM
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I emailed Jakob, the maker of the Canna, and passed on our various reservations. He emailed back with some very interesting information. In particular, he points out that Hempstone is not the same as Hempcrete. I've suggested that he become a member of this forum and give this community the information he passed along to me. This is definitely a guitar worthy of attention.
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