Alternative to Neumann KM84

[PANDAPANDELO]

Hi there, everybody!

I would like to have one small diaphragm condenser micrpophone (or even a large diaphragm) to record my acoustic guitar (a Martin HD28 from 2005). The sound I'm after is a warm one, similar to the Neumann KM84 (not the younger brother, KM184, that is too harsh for my taste).

Do you guys have any advice on some affordable ones to get? Thank you!

I have no real world experience so deleted...

[KevWind]

What is your realistic budget range

I have not used any BUT
There are several companies that are building mic's purported to be based on the vaunted 84 (albeit many experienced engineers will caution 84's all sounded slightly different)

That said :
In the value price range Warm Audio offers their take on the 84

Me personally (if you can swing it budget wise) I would seriously consider a stereo pair and probably go for the premium pair, with omni as well as cardioid capsules

https://www.sweetwater.com/c105--War...8gMTZtbSkiXX19

At just over $1k each http://www.pelusomicrophonelab.com/microphones/P-84.html

Likely others if you google Neumann KM 84 clone

[PANDAPANDELO]

I guess that for my budget I will probably stay with the WA84... but just a single, not a matched pair.

[Chipotle]

Some folks have actually favorably compared the Line Audio CM4 (or older CM3) to an 84(!) and there was recently a thread about the CM4 here. If you go over to the Gearslutz forum and search, you can find some comparison audio. I don't know if it really reaches that rarified level, but they are pretty darn good.

Best thing is that you can the get CM4 for under $300... for a pair!

[jklotz]

You solution was a pair of Rode NT5’s. I like them a lot, they fit the budget and they sound really good. I don’t think they have the very musical harmonic distortion the km 84’s are known for, but I’m not sure where to send you for that short of finding some vintage km 84’s.

[guitarman68]

If money would be no issue then Schoeps MK4. They are incredible close to KM84. I did a comparison using both and it's pretty hard to hear the difference. We had a thread here two weeks ago the you can find. But they are in the same price range with vintage KM84s.

Haun MBC 660, Gefell M300, Peluso 84, maybe Shure SM81 or Shure KSM 137 , some mention Oktava MK012 , others say that Oktava factory end control is not top notch.
Can't commend on Warm Audio mics.
Rode NT5 is nice but to my ear is tailored after the KM 184 - not what I want to hear anymore and not what you are looking for.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO

Hi there, everybody!

I would like to have one small diaphragm condenser micrpophone (or even a large diaphragm) to record my acoustic guitar (a Martin HD28 from 2005). The sound I'm after is a warm one, similar to the Neumann KM84 (not the younger brother, KM184, that is too harsh for my taste).

Do you guys have any advice on some affordable ones to get? Thank you!

Did you actually try the KM184? Or are you going with what people are posting on the internet? KM184s sound different with different preamps. It's a well known fact that many people bash newer Neumann products before actually trying them in their situations with the right pre. In the real world of professonal recording engineers you will find many people that love the KM184! But KM184s like darker sounding pres. If you bought a set of KM184s and are finding them harsh, try them with a different pre before you go sending them down the line. If you would like, I can go record my HD28 with a single, or pair of them and a nice preamp, and you could judge from that.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by KevWind

"I have not use any BUT"

Seriously Kev, you should have left it at just that. None of these mics that you mentioned sound even remotely close to a KM84. And IMNSHO the only decent mic you mentioned is the Peluso, but still it doesn't sound like a KM84.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

Some folks have actually favorably compared the Line Audio CM4 (or older CM3) to an 84(!) and there was recently a thread about the CM4 here. If you go over to the Gearslutz forum and search, you can find some comparison audio. I don't know if it really reaches that rarified level, but they are pretty darn good.

Best thing is that you can the get CM4 for under $300... for a pair!

There are some seriously good small condensors mentioned here Geffell and Schoeps, I would debate whether they sound of the KM84, although, some might even prefer these mics over the Neumann when paired with the right pre. But the CM4 in real life use are not even in the same ballpark, and that comes from experience not reading something on the internet!

Deleted...

[rick-slo]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

Seriously Kev, you should have left it at just that. None of these mics that you mentioned sound even remotely close to a KM84. And IMNSHO the only decent mic you mentioned is the Peluso, but still it doesn't sound like a KM84.

So you personally demoed the Warm Audio WA-84 mikes?

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by rockabilly69

There are some seriously good small condensors mentioned here Geffell and Schoeps, I would debate whether they sound of the KM84, although, some might even prefer these mics over the Neumann when paired with the right pre. But the CM4 in real life use are not even in the same ballpark, and that comes from experience not reading something on the internet!

How about listening to something on the internet? You may well be right; I haven't used all of these mics (though I wish I could). But there are comparison recordings out there I pointed to, made by people who do have direct experience.

Here's a thread with a direct comparison of the CM3 (CM4 predecessor) to Schoeps

I thought there was a direct CM4-KM84 comparison somewhere but can't dig it up right now.

Anyway, point is that if you want a KM84, save your shekels and buy one. No other mic will be identical--but others (at various price points) might have the flavor you're looking for as well. Folks recommend try before you buy, but that can be a difficult (and possibly expensive in its own right) proposition sometimes. In that case, opinions on the internet is all we have to go on. Audio samples can at least get a bit closer than opinions.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by J-Doug

I recommended the Gefell M300 as an alternative to the KM184 in my response to the OP because the OP does not want a KM184. This recomendation is based only on youtube shootouts betwen them and the advice of friends who have used both. So guilty as charged! I can pull my resonse if people see fit. I will be buying some Gefells based on this info though. They sound great to my ears but are they a KM84? I really have no idea and probably never will.

One of the reason I've questioned peoples posts here is because they are sounding very much like repeating of other peoples opinions, and many of these opinions are formed from perusing the internet, but not actually using the mics. And one of the biggest myths is the harshness of KM184s. Are they as smooth as a KM84? No, but with the right recording technique, and a slight HF roll off when needed, they can sound GREAT! That's why I'm wondering if the OP had actually used these mics, or is he going by others posts. I remember almost NOT buying my KM184s because of these posts! That's why I'm passionate about this subject. Fortunately for me, I found a new pair and at reasonable price and with a liberal return policy, so I gave a set a try. I couldn't be happier with them. I accidently stumbled into what preamps I liked with the KM184s as I was recording at home and I had a darker Drawmer 1960 there, and they sounded great with that preamp. So I took them over to my studio and tried them with a Neve Portico pre and they sounded great with that, far from harsh. And I've used Geffel M300s mics and they are good sounding, do they sound better than KM184s? That is probably best left to the person doing the actual recording to see if they like them better. Certain gear lines up better with certain preamps, guitars, etc. But one thing for sure, I will not be getting rid of my Neumanns because they sound harsh. And that's why I posted my replies.

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

How about listening to something on the internet? You may well be right; I haven't used all of these mics (though I wish I could). But there are comparison recordings out there I pointed to, made by people who do have direct experience.

Here's a thread with a direct comparison of the CM3 (CM4 predecessor) to Schoeps

I thought there was a direct CM4-KM84 comparison somewhere but can't dig it up right now.

Anyway, point is that if you want a KM84, save your shekels and buy one. No other mic will be identical--but others (at various price points) might have the flavor you're looking for as well. Folks recommend try before you buy, but that can be a difficult (and possibly expensive in its own right) proposition sometimes. In that case, opinions on the internet is all we have to go on. Audio samples can at least get a bit closer than opinions.

Or you can just rent a mic you consider buying and try them out in your own space. When I was a looking at a Neumann U87ai I heard even more bashing of that mic than the KM184. So I rented one, and loved it, I use it on almost every session for varous things. And does that mean I'm a Neumann fan boy. Not really, I just think they get bashed unnecessarily by people that have never used them, my favorite Vocal mic is a Lawson L251, and my favorite natural sounding acoustic guitar mic is a Violet Globe vintage. And as for trusting other people's opinions on the internet, it's just a crap shoot. But from my experience with the CM3 in my studio with decent preamps (Manley, Neve, Sebatron, Langevin, BAE), the CM3 didn't bring the KM84 sound. And I offered to show the OP what a KM184 would sound like with the same guitar that he owned (Martin HD28), just to show that the KM184s aren't harsh.