Goodall vs Santa Cruz

[ronadair]

Couldn't be happier with my Goodall. Cedar over Koa. Exquisite. I'd probably enjoy a fine Santa Cruz too. Variety adds spice!

[Bax Burgess]

Zagerized Goodall and Cruz - a perfect union of science and magic. They cost a fortune!

[robj144]

Originally Posted by Jackdaw9516

Goodall is like Breedlove. Sounds great at first and you are mesmerized...but then you grow tired of it quickly and wish you had a traditional sounding guitar.

Santa Cruz wins this poll, imo.

Have you owned a Goodall? I own both and the only guitar in my entire collection that always amazes me is the Goodall and it's not really close.

[Wade Hampton]

I've never owned either brand, but have played dozens of examples of each. For a few years our local professional level music store stocked Goodalls, back when they were being made in a small shop operation in Hawaii, rather than the father and son operation they have in California today. I've also played some of their recent California guitars, but not as many.

I've played most of the models that the Santa Cruz Guitar Company (SCGC) offers, most on my travels outside of Alaska. But some friends up here own some, too.

The first point I'd make is that there's nobody who consistently does a better job with koa instruments than Goodall. Koa is one of my favorite tonewoods, but a high percentage of koa guitars made by other manufacturers and small shop operations simply don't measure up to the sort of instruments Goodall manages to make time after time after time after time. For whatever reason, Goodall has koa figured out in a way that nobody else has.

I'm less enthused about Goodall's rosewood instruments, frankly, because they get so lush that the overtones have been overwhelming, at least for the way that I play.

Santa Cruz's strengths, as I see them, are in their interpretations of vintage Martin designs with their own modern California touches added. If you don't know what I mean by that, you're not alone, I'm finding it difficult to articulate what I'm trying to say. They're not precisely like old Martins, they're kind of like vintage Martins that moved to the West Coast and learned to surf....

Weisser may have put it best in his or her post about the "sweetness" of the SCGC guitars, particularly when compared directly to Collings guitars. While I admire many things about Collings guitars, I've never cared for their OM's, particularly when compared to Santa Cruz's. The SCGC version just has a rounder tone, not as "edgy" or brittle as a Collings OM.

But I've wandered away from the comparison that the OP requested. To answer that, I think it would come down to what I'd be using the guitar for. For most of my playing, Santa Cruz guitars would probably be more practical, given the way I play: I came up playing Mossman and Martin guitars, and my right hand attack works well with the way those guitars respond and sustain. If I were to get a Goodall, I'd have to learn how to work with its completely different response and sustain characteristics.

I'd particularly go for SCGC if I was looking for an OM. That's really the guitar model that established that company, and they build them exceedingly well.

But if I was looking for a koa guitar, there wouldn't be any hesitation at all: I'd get a Goodall Grand Concert model with a spruce top and koa back and sides. There really isn't anyone else in the same league with Goodall when it comes to koa, and of the many Goodall guitars that I've played, I've always liked their Grand Concert models best.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Peterw]

Hm, three year gap in this thread. Oh well. I've owned quite a few Goodalls and Santa Cruz's, and I own one of each now, both of which are "forever" guitars.

As others have observed, the biggest difference is in the individual guitar. I have played amazing guitars from both; and less-amazing guitars from both.

But that being said, I think some level of generalization is justifiable. Goodalls in general definitely have a more "modern" tone: cool, bright, complex. SCGC's usually have a more "traditional" warm, dark, focused tone. (Again: you could easily find exceptions among individual guitars by both builders.)

Interestingly, the "modern" vs. "traditional" character of Goodall and SCGC, respectively, applies to appearance as well: SCGC's tend to look more conventional, i.e. like a Martin. Goodalls are amazingly beautiful in appearance (and impeccable in fit and finish) in a more non-traditional way.

One note I'd add: my preference with Goodalls (including the one I own) is definitely for mahogany back and sides, because it dials back the amazing Goodall complexity to manageable levels. I've actually had the opposite problem with SCGC's: some sound too "fundamental", too one-dimensional.

Again it goes back to the individual guitar; but there are indeed some characteristic things you can expect (or watch out for) from each of these outstanding builders.

[BrunoBlack]

Zombie thread, probably still interesting to many. Since I commented 3 years ago, I’ve been able to play quite a few Goodall guitars. I also purchased a TROM (sold),TW000 and a GC. I have played many SCGC instruments and have purchased an H13 (sold), OM and OMG. Both brands make spectacular guitars and IMO, neither is best. They are at opposite ends of the tonal spectrum. Goodall is rich, full, modern (even Traditional models) and pretty sounding. SCGC can sound quite different from guitar to guitar. With eyes closed, I doubt I could tell the H13, OM and OMG were made by the same company if I didn’t hold them. SCGC tends towards the fundamental with far fewer overtones and chime. SCGC guitars are well balanced with nice depth and great feel. Both are outstanding. I believe I’ll always own both, but if I had to choose only 1, I would be thrilled with either, but probably would choose SCGC.

[Kyrin]

For overtones I definitely say Goodall

[SuperB23]

I've spent several hours at Sylvan music comparing these two brands and as much as I like Santa Cruz my vote and ears for sure go to Goodall. That being said I own two Santa Cruz guitars right now!

[M Sarad]

I was at Sylvan Music in Santa Cruz last January. I played 22 different SCGC guitars. Out if those, I found 2 that I wanted to take home.
Then I played 2 Goodall 000. I wanted to take them both.
The first 000 Goodall I played 15 years ago sounded exactly like the 2 new ones.

Father and son vs a talented crew that has seen the best luthiers work and take off: Dan Roberts, Jeff Traugott, Stephen Strahm, Scott Walker,Marc Maingard, Roy McAlister, Michael Hornick.
The 2 Cruz I liked were equal to the best single shop builders I have played. Of course, that is just my opinion.
I have played Eric Skye's personal guitar. Great in his hands, but not what I'm looking for tonally.
I don't like larger body Goodalls at all.

The wife and I are taking a vacation in this month. I hope I can convince her to drive a bit farther up the coast to Fort Bragg to visit Goodall. I met Jim almost 40 years ago at NAMM when he was a solo builder. At the last Healdsburg Guitar Festival I met him again at an after party that had Wingert, Brondel, Schoenberg, Peter Lang and many other builders and players. Great party: one if my buddies got a DUI on his way home.

[brencat]

Thanks to the generosity of one forum member Larry (Martz911), I got to play a handful of Goodalls from his personal collection, and ended up buying two (a BRW TROM and EIR TRD) that he offered for sale. They were great guitars, but did not last. My hand did not like the smaller neck on the TRD and eventually it got sold (Fort Bragg made 2009 - Present Goodalls have slimmed down necks vs their Kona, HI built cousins). And the TROM which I played a lot initially after purchase stopped catching my fancy and was also eventually sold.

I always gravitated toward the feel of my Santa Cruzes more. Maybe it was their Martin vibe, but playability was a factor too. Santa Cruz guitars to me as a whole have a very relaxed feel and you never have to think about playing them perfectly. You just have fun and focus on the music.

At present I own a D/PW from 2012 that will always be with me, and a 2011 1934D which I got this year that is the best dread I've ever owned. Also previously owned an OM/PW (terrific!) and a German/EIR OM which I didn't care for so much (a bit too stiff and too 'pretty sounding' for the old time and fiddle tunes I typically flatpick).

[LakewoodM32Fan]

I have played a grand total of one Goodall a couple of months ago (I don't count the one I played like 15+ years ago when I didn't know what the heck it even was, or what boutique builders were), a Sitka over Koa grand concert. Build quality was great, though it weighed a bit more than I was expecting, especially given how light SCGCs tend to be.

I have no doubts that being strung with Elixirs played a part in this, but it was comparably bright and overtone-filled in comparison to the SCGC (which itself is one of my brighter/overtone-y guitars). I ultimately did not pull the trigger on it (the shop not budging from it's 7.2K list price probably had a little to do with it as well, despite it sitting in their inventory for 3 years), I paid nearly as much for my SCGC OM (adi top, adi braces, hot hide glue upcharges at the time) but have never regretted it. I felt like I would regret paying that much for that Goodall.

But again, that was one sample. I really wish I had closer Goodall and Bourgeois dealers because those are the two that I've only played 2-3 samples total in the last decade.

[Dwight]

I found Goodall guitars too bright and with too much harmonic content for my liking. I like Santa Cruz guitars more.

[Boozehound]

I think they both do different things very well. Goodalls tend to deliver a 'modern' tone with lots of clarity and sustain and a very 'wet' tone. Almost like they have built-in reverb. Santa Cruz tends to be drier and more vintage in the tonal signature. I lean slightly to Santa Cruz as I do a lot of Country, Classic Rock and Folk type music.

[Peterw]

LOL-- I agree with Haasome, even the Goodall "traditionals" sound modern. The Goodall I have now is a "Traditional OM" (adi/hog). The tone is unmistakably Goodall. I even spoke with James Goodall on the phone about this question and he said there's no difference in build between the "traditional" series and his standard series-- only the appointments, style of peghead, and so on.