Indian RW versus East Indian RW

[lizzard]

Luthiers, I admit that I had always thought of these as the same wood referred to differently. In the last couple days I have learned that they are truly different species.

As far as sound, workability, stability, etc.. Does it matter? If you do detect meaningful differences, what are they.

Thanks in advance.

Chris

[nacluth]

Hmm... I think most Rosewood referred to as Indian is specifically indicating EIR (dalbergia latifolia). It's the wood you've seen a million times in factory guitars (and...ahem...are about to receive in handbuilt form). It's a dream to work with, has the wonderful smell of horse urine (guitar smell) when worked, and can make an excellent sound despite the factory reputation of being ho-hum.

There is another wood from India that is commonly called Indian (dalbergia sissoo). It can be virtually indistinguishable from EIR - though most commonly it's a little redder than d. latifolia and -from my limited observations of the wood for sale as tonewood- grows faster than EIR and has wider grain lines. This could be a product of market conditions though. The actual working properties (and even the smell) have tended to be extremely similar. I'm not sure if the average person could pick the two apart without dna testing.

My knowledge is limited, and I didn't use google before answering, I would like to hear what others have to say.

[Steve Kinnaird]

Hey Chris, I'd like to hear what you heard. Or put otherwise, what was the source of that factoid?

Steve

[lizzard]

Originally Posted by Steve Kinnaird

Hey Chris, I'd like to hear what you heard. Or put otherwise, what was the source of that factoid?

Steve

Steve, It was another post on the forum (if memory serves) which mentioned the two species in their botanical names as Ryan has listed above. I don't recall any claims or observations to accompany. That's why i decided to post here to see if there ARE any claims or observations.

Chris

update - It was post 3 here.

[Steve Kinnaird]

Found this looking for D. sissoo:

Dalbergia sissoo, known commonly as Indian Rosewood, is an evergreen rosewood tree, also known as sisu, sheesham, tahli, Tali and also Irugudujava. It is native to the Indian Subcontinent and Southern Iran. In Persian, it is called Jag. It is the state tree of Punjab state (India) and the provincial tree of Punjab province (Pakistan). It is primarily found growing along river banks below 900 metres (3,000 ft) elevation, but can range naturally up to 1,300 m (4,300 ft). The temperature in its native range averages 10–40 °C (50–104 °F), but varies from just below freezing to nearly 50 °C (122 °F). It can withstand average annual rainfall up to 2,000 millimetres (79 in) and droughts of 3–4 months. Soils range from pure sand and gravel to rich alluvium of river banks; shisham can grow in slightly saline soils. Seedlings are intolerant of shade.

Granted, this is from Wikipedia, so consider accordingly.
Thanks, Chris.

Steve

[nacluth]

It's like Kinnaird day answering but I have more to add!

A few years ago, there was kind of a big story about there finally being a US Rosewood. Some intrepid cross culturists transplanted Dalbergia Sissoo to Florida where it started thriving. Maybe not as well as in India, but enough to get trees with tonewood yields. They main person cutting it started calling it Florida Rosewood and selling limited sets of it to good buddies (read dollars). I saw some at the 2010 Miami Newport show. The wood was primarily red and golden (similar to Palo Escrito) in color. The implication was that maybe the location instilled different properties, but it was basically marketing if you ask me. Sissoo is probably a fine tonewood, but I think EIR is a little denser which probably helps that Rosewood tone.

[lizzard]

Thanks guys. I'm going to file this one away under "who cares" and not worry about sissoo. Seems like it might make a better top wood

Thanks again for helping me figure this out.

Chris

PS - looking forward to NGD!

[Bruce Sexauer]

I have never to my knowledge seen Sissoo as it is not considered a contender by the Lutherie supply industry, nor does it grow nearby. But from what I have read it can be used as a tonewood. I guess I think of it as EIR's wimpy and less attractive cousin by marriage.

[Tim McKnight]

I've had and used one set of the Florida variety. It looked similar to EIR but wider grained and less dense similar in properties to Panama RW or plantation grown EIR. It was blah to look at but had great tone. I used it for the internal sides and "hollow back" of a highly figured Maple guitar that I built and sold at the 2010 Newport show. Tonally it was firmly in the RW camp. Its tone surprised every player that picked it up because they were expecting to hear what their eyes saw, a Maple guitar. I loved seeing the dumb founded expressions on their face