Froggy Bottom vs... ?

[asobi]

Hivemind, guitar family. As some of you have read in my Froggy Bottom thread, I'd been looking to add a guitar that's a Yin to my Collings SJ Koa's Yang - something super lush, dark, molten overtones and harmonics with sweet and liquid treble etc. Doesn't have to be a slamming battle axe because my Collings slays, and I'd rather build a stable of guitars where each one has alpha+ strengths in certain areas than is a jack-of-all-trades (and master of none). Just to complete the background, I currently have reserved a custom 2023 OM/BRW build and a 2025 L-00 type/The Tree build coming down the pike in the future years.

I've come pretty far down the Froggy path and am looking to add a H12 or potentially a smaller model. Then I got a chance to play with a friend's Kim Walker OM and I just about lost it, and learned with some despondence that it's unlikely I'll be able to get in queue. I'd still like to obtain a used Walker one day down the line - I've had my Damascus moment.

The brief time with Walker combined with the covid-induced guitarphilia nervosa triggered a thought in me. I've been trying to get comparisons and views on Froggy Bottom vs. similarly priced quality small builders, and appreciate the amazing feedback I got from this community. But now, I'm curious whether FB could hold its weight, or even punch above its weight against some builders whose guitars in general seem to be at a price point several notches above FB.

Obviously YMMV and seeking only your intensely subjective & salty opinions here, not some summary ultimatums. But presuming that for each builder we are comparing OM/000 Brazilian Rosewood - and based on my criteria I specify above, curious about your views on these following guitars when using Froggy Bottom as a reference point:

• Circa
• Traugott
• Greenfield
• Matsuda
• Applegate

And for fun, vs. a small echelon of builders who seem like The Untouchables to me:

• Walker
• Olson
• Somogyi

If you only have experience with these above guitars without FB comparison, that's helpful too. Okay, on your mark...get set... go!

[handers]

Originally Posted by latestyle

Hivemind, guitar family. As some of you have read in my Froggy Bottom thread, I'd been looking to add a guitar that's a Yin to my Collings SJ Koa's Yang - something super lush, dark, molten overtones and harmonics with sweet and liquid treble etc. Doesn't have to be a slamming battle axe because my Collings slays, and I'd rather build a stable of guitars where each one has alpha+ strengths in certain areas than is a jack-of-all-trades (and master of none). Just to complete the background, I currently have reserved a custom 2023 OM/BRW build and a 2025 L-00 type/The Tree build coming down the pike in the future years.

I've come pretty far down the Froggy path and am looking to add a H12 or potentially a smaller model. Then I got a chance to play with a friend's Kim Walker OM and I just about lost it, and learned with some despondence that it's unlikely I'll be able to get in queue. I'd still like to obtain a used Walker one day down the line - I've had my Damascus moment.

The brief time with Walker combined with the covid-induced guitarphilia nervosa triggered a thought in me. I've been trying to get comparisons and views on Froggy Bottom vs. similarly priced quality small builders, and appreciate the amazing feedback I got from this community. But now, I'm curious whether FB could hold its weight, or even punch above its weight against some builders whose guitars in general seem to be at a price point several notches above FB.

Obviously YMMV and seeking only your intensely subjective & salty opinions here, not some summary ultimatums. But presuming that for each builder we are comparing OM/000 Brazilian Rosewood - and based on my criteria I specify above, curious about your views on these following guitars when using Froggy Bottom as a reference point:

• Circa
• Traugott
• Greenfield
• Matsuda
• Applegate

And for fun, vs. a small echelon of builders who seem like The Untouchables to me:

• Walker
• Olson
• Somogyi

If you only have experience with these above guitars without FB comparison, that's helpful too. Okay, on your mark...get set... go!

“Alpha+ strengths” ?
“Punch above its weight” ?

I don’t think I can help you. I have played all of the guitars u mention other than Somogyi and Walker. They are all guitars with different voices and approaches. I would not hazard the kind of comparison you are looking for. It’s not about better or worse, they are all excellent guitars with completely different qualities. I have no idea how u play or what ur goals are in playing.

I could tell u my impressions of these guitars but that would be irrelevant. U need to play 2-3 of each them and form ur own conclusion.

Enjoy the journey.

Hans

[BrunoBlack]

My opinion is that when you get to the level these instruments represent, nobody can help you. You’ve entered a zone when only your impressions will be able to answer the questions you are asking. They are all fabulous.

[asobi]

Originally Posted by handers

I could tell u my impressions of these guitars but that would be irrelevant. U need to play 2-3 of each them and form ur own conclusion.

Thanks, Hans. Living in Manhattan, the epicenter of coronavirus and 8 pm lockdown, kind of prohibits me from being able to get my hands on much, with the shops all closed down. I intend to do so when the society here thaws and opens back up. Have a good weekend!

[SuperB23]

Goodall.....

Froggy and Goodall always felt similar in quality of tone to me. The new FT Bragg built Goodall stuff is quite amazing!! I've played an H12 side by side with a TR000 and they felt like nearly the same instrument.

As far as comparing to some of the brands you listed above, I think Froggy holds its own quite well with a lot of the solo guitar builders. I've played a few examples of most of the builders on your list except Greenfield and Matsuda.

There are a few brands out there that really border on small shop or solo luthier. Ryan, Goodall, Froggy, McPherson, Petros all come to mind. Most of those brands have one or two people building all the guitars.

[asobi]

Originally Posted by SuperB23

Goodall.....

Froggy and Goodall always felt similar in quality of tone to me. The new FT Bragg built Goodall stuff is quite amazing!! I've played an H12 side by side with a TR000 and they felt like nearly the same instrument.

As far as comparing to some of the brands you listed above, I think Froggy holds its own quite well with a lot of the solo guitar builders...

There are a few brands out there that really border on small shop or solo luthier. Ryan, Goodall, Froggy, McPherson, Petros all come to mind. Most of those brands have one or two people building all the guitars.

Very helpful, Superb23, thank you!

[Rosewood99]

"Axe" and "Slay"? Are you sure you shouldn't be looking for an electric guitar?

I haven't played all the guitars you've mentioned but I can say that my Froggy has a bit of magic that's hard to describe. I agree that Goodall came the closet. But I think the FB has a bit more fundamental tone and the Goodall slightly more lush.

[handers]

Originally Posted by latestyle

Thanks, Hans. Living in Manhattan, the epicenter of coronavirus and 8 pm lockdown, kind of prohibits me from being able to get my hands on much, with the shops all closed down. I intend to do so when the society here thaws and opens back up. Have a good weekend!

Feeling terrible for what NYC has gone thru in past 3 months and continues to be challenged by.

I am sure u know Rudy’s Soho which will help u play numerous Froggys. I have never seen the other guitars on ur short list there. The guitar Fests ( Woodstock, Artisan in Harrisburg, the CA fest in Santa Barbara and north Ca) are the best way to find some of those guitars to play together and compare. I have learned so much about such guitars from attending 4-5 of those festd over the years. Unfortunately most r on hold. But they’ll be back if u can wait.

I wish u a great weekend and hope the CV goes away immediately. Good luck NY. We r looking at Cristobal approaching us in New Orleans tomorrow. We will both prevail!! Hans

[three4rd]

I have to confess to not being familiar with most of these high-end brands you mention. Undoubtedly there are a good many small 'boutique'-type guitar builders out there that I've never heard of. When I 'auditioned' the Froggy I wound up buying, the seller also had a Goodall and Collings. I played all three - went back and forth. They were all great, yet different. I seem to recall the Collings having a good deal of power - as you allude to indicating that yours "slays" (lol). I probably spent at least an hour on each guitar. Sorry I don't recall the specific models that I played; however, there was something about the Froggy that stuck out as being somewhat unique - or at least in a way that most appealed to me. As I referred to in another recent thread about Froggies, I was struck by the individual note definition and articulation, and certainly tonal clarity. This is not to imply that the other guitars didn't possess similar qualities.

I think I was likely swayed towards the Froggy due to my familiarity with it compared to the other two brands, and, in a large way undoubtedly, from always reading Will Ackerman's stories about it - not to mention being a fan of his for so long and always having wanted the opportunity to try a Froggy. So in that regard I was probably not as 'objective' in my evaluation of the Goodall and Collings as I could have been, but certainly tried to give them the time and consideration such guitars deserve.

This surely doesn't help you much, but that's my limited experience with Froggy compared to a few others. I had also gone to my local music store (before trying the ones I mentioned) and played a few Martins and Santa Cruz - found them all to be very nice guitars as well. Unfortunately, a decent amount of time elapsed before trying the other 3 brands so it all got a bit confusing trying to recall what all of them sounded like for comparison purposes.

I think I'd agree that when you get to such higher level instruments it probably comes down to lots of subjective factors that are rather nebulous and harder to define compared to more basic and readily identified strengths or weaknesses that may become more easily apparent with lesser-quality guitars. I felt I couldn't lose with either the Collings, Goodall, or Froggy. Would have been happy to take them all along home to be honest! Good luck with all of it. Stay safe....

[three4rd]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

"Axe" and "Slay"? Are you sure you shouldn't be looking for an electric guitar?

lol....my initial reaction as well....

[asobi]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

"Axe" and "Slay"? Are you sure you shouldn't be looking for an electric guitar?

Originally Posted by three4rd

lol....my initial reaction as well....

Okay guys - you got me thinking

[asobi]

Originally Posted by handers

Feeling terrible for what NYC has gone thru in past 3 months and continues to be challenged by.

I am sure u know Rudy’s Soho which will help u play numerous Froggys. I have never seen the other guitars on ur short list there. The guitar Fests ( Woodstock, Artisan in Harrisburg, the CA fest in Santa Barbara and north Ca) are the best way to find some of those guitars to play together and compare. I have learned so much about such guitars from attending 4-5 of those festd over the years. Unfortunately most r on hold. But they’ll be back if u can wait.

I wish u a great weekend and hope the CV goes away immediately. Good luck NY. We r looking at Cristobal approaching us in New Orleans tomorrow. We will both prevail!! Hans

Thanks, Hans! Co-opting my own thread but I lost a close friend to CV - he was only 40. His family couldn't fly in due to restrictions, so a few of us friends arranged a funeral - on Easter Sunday. His body was literally chilling in the fridge as we couldn't find a cemetery to take him, until about 3 weeks ago.

Thanks for your encouragement, and yes, we will both prevail!!

[asobi]

Originally Posted by paulzoom

I can say that my Froggy has a bit of magic that's hard to describe. I agree that Goodall came the closet. But I think the FB has a bit more fundamental tone and the Goodall slightly more lush.

Now, this is interesting...

Originally Posted by three4rd

When I 'auditioned' the Froggy I wound up buying, the seller also had a Goodall and Collings. I played all three - went back and forth. They were all great, yet different...there was something about the Froggy that stuck out as being somewhat unique - or at least in a way that most appealed to me. As I referred to in another recent thread about Froggies, I was struck by the individual note definition and articulation, and certainly tonal clarity.

I think I'd agree that when you get to such higher level instruments it probably comes down to lots of subjective factors that are rather nebulous and harder to define compared to more basic and readily identified strengths or weaknesses that may become more easily apparent with lesser-quality guitars. I felt I couldn't lose with either the Collings, Goodall, or Froggy. Would have been happy to take them all along home to be honest! Good luck with all of it. Stay safe....

Very helpful, thank you. It seems now I have to just go out and buy all of em, including a slayer electric!

[brandall10]

Originally Posted by SuperB23

Goodall.....

Froggy and Goodall always felt similar in quality of tone to me. The new FT Bragg built Goodall stuff is quite amazing!! I've played an H12 side by side with a TR000 and they felt like nearly the same instrument.

Would you say this comparison only extends to the traditional series Goodalls, or all of them? I ask this as I'm on a somewhat similar mission, but have never played a Froggy Bottom.

I *have* played Goodalls, back in 2003 at the late great Buffalo Brothers. 5 of them in one sitting, with $5k burning a whole in my pocket as Goodall was maybe the hottest acoustic guitar on the interwebs at the time, or at least that was my impression.

My recollection of the Goodalls was they sounded pretty but were rather quiet, they just lacked power compared to most other guitars I tried of similar sizes. I was really disappointed as I was pretty set on getting one. I came away from that experience getting a H&D CM cutaway in EIR, having never heard of the brand before.

Conversely, with Froggys, besides players saying they have some sort of 'magic', is that they sound like a guitar a size bigger, which flys in the face of what I personally experienced w/ the Goodalls.

Out here in San Diego I'm only aware of one Froggy within reasonable driving distance, a used EIR M at a repair shop that was in fact associated with Buffalo Bros. I'll check it out, but I hate having just one example color a whole brand.

[247hoopsfan]

Brandall, I don't know what Goodalls you played back in 2003, but I can assure you my Goodall Rosewood Standard is anything but "quiet." It responds to the lightest touch and is articulate, lush and gets loud very easily. That is one of the characteristics I love about it, you don't have to push it to make it heard. Goodalls on the used market at $3500-4500 are incredible values.