John Williams reflects on Segovia

[Wendell123]

Originally Posted by RevGeo

As has been stated earlier, Segovia's impact on the guitar cannot be underestimated. There are few in the entire guitar pantheon who are considered true pioneers of the instrument - Hendrix, Atkins, Christian and Segovia spring to mind -
Being a great artist is no guarantee that one is a great human being.

I will never understand how anyone could include Hendrix, an over processed
gimmickmeister whos claim to fame is he could strike strings with his teeth
in the same breath as Atkins , Christian and Segovia???
btw Williams and Atkins are also great human beings,

Wendell

[Dogsnax]

What a hateful statement....

Originally Posted by Wendell123

I will never understand how anyone could include Hendrix, an over processed
gimmickmeister whos claim to fame is he could strike strings with he teeth
in the same breath as Atkins , Christian and Segovia???
btw Williams and Atkins are also great human beings,

Wendell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

Pavel Steidl plays "Hommage a Jimi Hendrix" by Carlo Domeniconi:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WqsLw_t7RLw

[RWG]

Segovia was a giant of his time, but I'm not sure I understand the comment that stated he was "the pioneer" of the classical guitar. Many came before him. Sor, Giuliani, Tarrega, Barrios, Carcassi, Carulli. Of course the earliest players only left us manuscripts, no CDs. Please explain this to me better.

[Paikon]

Originally Posted by RWG

Segovia was a giant of his time, but I'm not sure I understand the comment that stated he was "the pioneer" of the classical guitar. Many came before him. Sor, Giuliani, Tarrega, Barrios, Carcassi, Carulli. Of course the earliest players only left us manuscripts, no CDs. Please explain this to me better.

΅

Were these guitarists you mention any good as players?
Maybe they were very good but we don't know it, we only know what we have listened from Segovia and the others that followed him.

Could Heitor Villa Lobos play his guitar works? Who knows? Lets not forget that he dedicated them to Andres Segovia.

What I want to say that we mustn't confuse composition with actual playing.

[rogthefrog]

Barrios was a terrific player. There's at least one recording on YouTube
Villa Lobos could play well enough to write those fingerings.

[AfterViewer]

Segovia was like the Bruce Lee of the Classical/Spanish Guitar. There were other players around of equal or greater mastery of the instrument in Spain reciting the works of the Masters. Some of these Masters (composers) back then were still alive. Segovia, of course, brought the guitar onto the world stage internationally to produce a force to be reckoned with. All of us can appreciate his collaborative efforts in producing the nylon strings that replaced the gut strings of the day. (Augustine) Maestro guitarista en 'el Jardin: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCeebWgjrrU

[Trevor B.]

For me the real pioneers of the modern "classical guitar" (generic nomenclature here) are luthier Antonio Torres (1817-1892) and composer Francisco Tarrega (1852-1909).
I cite these two because most of the classical guitars built today still incorporate proportions, bracing and construction features developed by Torres as well as the pared down approach to inlay and decoration he practiced. Torres really is the father of the modern guitar in terms of guitar construction. Tarrega is to modern playing what Torres is to the luthier's art. He developed the idiomatic style which incorporates apoyando (rest stroke), glissandi and slides that function as ligados, and a host of hammer on and pull off effects that were considered at least gauche and even unacceptable in the classical period. Its just my opinion but I believe that without Torres and Tarrega we would never have had Segovia, Bream, Williams, or Russell. and that would have been tragic.

[Dave T]

Originally Posted by Trevor B.

For me the real pioneers of the modern "classical guitar" (generic nomenclature here) are luthier Antonio Torres (1817-1892) and composer Francisco Tarrega (1852-1909).
I cite these two because most of the classical guitars built today still incorporate proportions, bracing and construction features developed by Torres as well as the pared down approach to inlay and decoration he practiced. Torres really is the father of the modern guitar in terms of guitar construction. Tarrega is to modern playing what Torres is to the luthier's art. He developed the idiomatic style which incorporates apoyando (rest stroke), glissandi and slides that function as ligados, and a host of hammer on and pull off effects that were considered at least gauche and even unacceptable in the classical period. Its just my opinion but I believe that without Torres and Tarrega we would never have had Segovia, Bream, Williams, or Russell. and that would have been tragic.

Right on, plus 1, bravo, hit the nail on the flat part! Any other cliches I an add in support of this post?

Dave

[ntotoro]

Not to get too far back in the subject, but is any of this about Segovia really news? He hated Spanish folk music, Flamenco and etcetera, so is it really a surprise he didn't like South American music? He insisted his students use his fingerings in Master Classes. That much is pretty much common knowledge. He insisted things be done this way.

John Williams putting it in a book doesn't suddenly make this news.

Nick

[redir]

Originally Posted by ntotoro

Not to get too far back in the subject, but is any of this about Segovia really news? He hated Spanish folk music, Flamenco and etcetera, so is it really a surprise he didn't like South American music? He insisted his students use his fingerings in Master Classes. That much is pretty much common knowledge. He insisted things be done this way.

John Williams putting it in a book doesn't suddenly make this news.

Nick

I was just about to say the same thing. Nothing new. Having said that I don't understand how anyone could criticize Segovia's abilities and that he lacks emotion in his playing... Really? I think quite the opposite, what he lacks is technical playing for the sake of technical playing, stunt guitar, and that's a good thing imho.

[Nailpicker]

I really can't and therefore won't say anything about the merits of Segovia's playing and interpretive abilities. As the previous posts collectively imply, this can be somewhat subjective. Obviously he was a master nevertheless. Most could only dream of playing guitar with a fraction of his ability.

What I do remember is when he had some televised master classes on PBS. It still stands out in my mind (some 40 years later) how he seemed to often berate some of his students. I know I've never responded well, learned well in such an environment. He seemed to create an environment, a mindset that encouraged that. I took classical lessons for a very brief time with a teacher (he preferred to be referred to as "professor,"--yeah, whatever) who had studied under Segovia. My stint with this "professor" was very brief as it was too difficult as a 17 year old boy to withstand the dark, dismissive, excessively critical and arrogant demeanor of this "professor." I suppose it might have been something he learned from his teacher...err, professor.

[darylcrisp]

Originally Posted by Dogsnax

I think Segovia's significance comes from his elevation of the classical guitar to a more significant classical instrument and repertoire. I've never been too impressed with his recordings and I agree about the Chapdelaine master class video. It's absolutely painful to watch. Michael just happens to be one of the contemporary classical guitars who makes classical guitar "cool" - he doesn't worry about tradition or classical expectations. He's a fine steel-string player as well.

not to sidetrack the thread, but my wife and I were in the right place at the right time around 2010 and saw Michael Chapdelaine play for 2 hours in a very small venue. Simply amazing player. Kept your attention fully each second and made a lot of funny stories in between songs. Walked out on stage in a white t-shirt, well worn bluejeans, and barefoot.
We purchased 5 CD's that night of his music and play one of the 5 almost daily.

Here is the Capricho Arabe - Nylon Solo Guitar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_IyslZBfQg
and the same song with steel string
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hN4QwuX1eAY

enjoy
d

[scottishrogue]

Originally Posted by Dogsnax

What a hateful statement....

Hateful??? I don't see any hate by implying that Jimi Hendrix was a "showman" (gimmickmeister) of sorts. He knew how to get attention, of that there is no doubt, but lighting his guitar on fire is not the behavior I would expect from a professional musician. Hendrix seems to have a cult following, that will excuse anything he did, including the destruction of perfectly good guitars. I've heard Hendrix play, and Tommy E is a far superior guitarist, even though I don't much care for the music of either.

I do, however, totally agree with the quote that has been associated with Jimi Hendrix...and hope it is repeated often.

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace." Jimi Hendrix

Glen

[redir]

Hendrix was much more than a showman. Sure showmanship was a big part of his game but still he changed the course and direction of rock music and it's hard to argue that since he was influential on virtually every other electric guitar player that came after him that he was just a gimmickmiester. But comparing Hendrix to Segovia is apples and oranges. Both to their credit were largely influential on those who followed them but the style and technique are obviously way different. Could Segovia pull off distorted blues licks on a Fender Strat? Who knows?

[Dogsnax]

Originally Posted by scottishrogue

Hateful??? I don't see any hate by implying that Jimi Hendrix was a "showman" (gimmickmeister) of sorts. He knew how to get attention, of that there is no doubt, but lighting his guitar on fire is not the behavior I would expect from a professional musician. Hendrix seems to have a cult following, that will excuse anything he did, including the destruction of perfectly good guitars. I've heard Hendrix play, and Tommy E is a far superior guitarist, even though I don't much care for the music of either.

Glen

Glen,

You and I are constantly in disagreement and on this topic (Hendrix), nothing has changed. Happy New Year and I look forward to disagreeing with you in 2014.....

Fred