How Much to Charge for 3 Hour Gig?

[Red_Label]

Originally Posted by RustyAxe

Charity? Don't you know these places PAY for entertainment? An acquaintance of mine used to play more than 200 such gigs a year, which was a significant portion of his total income. 200 gigs x 100 per (minimum) = 20,000/year. All in the afternoon, leaving him free to play evenings in other venues. What you propose is like working at McDonald's for free ... someone isn't gonna have a job.

Hmmm... yeah, that's a good point. I was thinking more in regards to some of the homes where things seem a bit run-down and in in need of something joyous in there. I can play for money any time I want, but my thought was to "give back" in some way using the talents/desires I've been blessed-with. So that's exactly why I haven't done any local retirement homes yet... because I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing, in the right place, at the right time.

I've also considered offering to entertain in the hospital cancer wards and hospice type situations... but I'm not sure if I can take that stuff emotionally. I get pretty choked-up when I see people and animals suffering. I want to help, but I feel pretty vulnerable and afraid of the emotional toll it'll take on me. I am a charitable, giving person... but I just dunno if I can handle being exposed to that stuff. I do IT support for our local animal shelter and am always happy to help them. But I HATE actually going there, because it just guts me seeing all of those animals locked in cages because of the irresponsibility of people. So I dread going out there, because I know it'll put me in a funk for a few days.

[ceciltguitar]

1994 - 1997 I was playing 120 gigs a year in Columbus, OH. Mostly solo, some duo. Malls, restaurants, golf clubs, private parties, weddings, etc., with a few concerts each year for local arts festivals, library series etc. Instrumental finger style nylon string guitar. I kept meticulous records on monthly planner calendar for tax purposes, and with just a little extra math I calculated that each year I averaged about $50 an hour, and the average gig was 2 hours.

While in Columbus, once I met a locally renowned jazz guitarist who had started gigging in the 1950s. He told me that there were a lot fewer gigs in the 90s than there were in the 50s, and that the gigs paid the same in the 90s that they paid in the 50s. He also said that most of his gigs in the 50s were jazz, and that by the 90s nearly all of his gigs were country music gigs.

2003 - 2013 or so, I accompanied my bride (32 years last December) on 50 - 80 retirement home and nursing home gigs per year. Rose is a very talented singer, and she does a fine job accompanying herself on guitar. Music performance was her job in her late teens / early 20s, usually 7 nights a week, 3 - 6 hours a night, at "folk houses" (usually pizza restaurants) in the Philippines. We worked up a terrific set of pop favorites from roughly 1905 - 1960, and Rose always WOWs the audience. (I get to carry the equipment and play a few licks, and usually play one solo, usually a rendition of Guy Van Duser's arrangement of "The Stars & Stripes Forever" that Chet Atkins popularized at the 1976 bicentennial celebration.) Her average income for these one hour gigs is $100.

Our retirement home gigs took a big dive after the 2008 financial crisis. A lot of them stopped paying for entertainment. Rose went from 16 places that called her at least once a quarter to calling about 6 places that she called each month, and another 3 or 4 that she would call less frequently. Over the next decade, every time one of these establishments would be bought by a "bigger fish", the new owners would immediately cut paid entertainment. We would find out from frustrated staff members that the new owners also cut back on the number of nurses and CNAs, budget for meals etc.

[TJNies]

Originally Posted by oneshot1405

Looks I picked the wrong decade to play live music

I realize that 225 might be a bit low for a 3 hour trio, but I am just trying to get my foot in the door. I live in the Pittsburgh area where cost of everything is pretty low, which drives down what we can make compared to Cali markets. Once we are more established I hope to crank it up to around the 300 mark at least.

Care to divulge where you are playing? I am also in the Pgh region.

[Skip Ellis]

For those of you who "don't do it for the money", why are you taking business from those who are trying to earn a living? Doesn't it make you feel the least bit rotten? If you don't do it for the money and charge low prices, you'll just set a low standard for everyone else and provide cheap entertainment for the venue.

Don't worry about the venue - there's 20 shots in a bottle of liquor @ $5-6 a shot (that's $100+ for a $15 bottle of hooch). If they pay $1.00/bottle for beer. they're charging $3.50 - $5.00, plus you have to tip the wait staff to bring it to you. No, I've known too many bar owners over my 50 years of playing these places to feel sorry for them. It gets even worse when musicians are clambering to play and will do it almost free or the venue gets amateurs to play 'open mics' so they get completely free entertainment. Oh, and you also have to remember that there are bar owners who will present the band with an inflated bar tab at the end of the evening (Think 'Bob's Country Bunker' of "Blues Brothers" fame), wiping out the entire paycheck....and....you have NO recourse short of doing something that will land you in jail. It's not all fun and games, boys and girls.

[Red_Label]

Originally Posted by Skip Ellis

For those of you who "don't do it for the money", why are you taking business from those who are trying to earn a living? Doesn't it make you feel the least bit rotten? If you don't do it for the money and charge low prices, you'll just set a low standard for everyone else and provide cheap entertainment for the venue.

Don't worry about the venue - there's 20 shots in a bottle of liquor @ $5-6 a shot (that's $100+ for a $15 bottle of hooch). If they pay $1.00/bottle for beer. they're charging $3.50 - $5.00, plus you have to tip the wait staff to bring it to you. No, I've known too many bar owners over my 50 years of playing these places to feel sorry for them. It gets even worse when musicians are clambering to play and will do it almost free or the venue gets amateurs to play 'open mics' so they get completely free entertainment. Oh, and you also have to remember that there are bar owners who will present the band with an inflated bar tab at the end of the evening (Think 'Bob's Country Bunker' of "Blues Brothers" fame), wiping out the entire paycheck....and....you have NO recourse short of doing something that will land you in jail. It's not all fun and games, boys and girls.

Take it down a thousand. EVERYONE has a right to play if someone wants them to play. No one is entitled to gigs any more than anyone else. I've toured as a full pro musician where music was my only livelihood for several years, and done semi-pro for the rest of the 35 years I've been gigging. Many of us do occasional "gigs" at museums, arts houses, etc that weren't going to pay anyone anyways.

[Don Lampson]

I've played out since the late 60s, mostly in California. Where I live now, (the Central Coast) "bar bands" are still paid what they used to get 30-40 years ago: $250-$400 per night, with maybe some food, or drinks, thrown in?

Things have improved for solo performers. We're now paid per hour, ($50-$75) what we used to get back then, for a whole night.... Being a solo is far tougher than being in a band! BTW, those band wages are for "popular music / dance" bands. I see some venues offering Metal, punk, or jazz outfits, where there are three acts per night... I don't know what they're paid, but I shutter to think about it?

Don

[leew3]

Originally Posted by Red_Label

Take it down a thousand. EVERYONE has a right to play if someone wants them to play. No one is entitled to gigs any more than anyone else. I've toured as a full pro musician where music was my only livelihood for several years, and done semi-pro for the rest of the 35 years I've been gigging. Many of us do occasional "gigs" at museums, arts houses, etc that weren't going to pay anyone anyways.

Thanks Red Label! I'm with you as I too don't imagine all the big time stars here on the AGF want to take the gigs played by those of us who are despised because we have the nerve to 'not play for the money'. We're having a good time and your pristine reputations and income are in no danger from us knuckle draggers who just play for fun. I too have been a card carrying member of the AFM and so back in those days I guess I was respectable.

[Red_Label]

Originally Posted by leew3

Thanks Red Label! I'm with you as I too don't imagine all the big time stars here on the AGF want to take the gigs played by those of us who are despised because we have the nerve to 'not play for the money'. We're having a good time and your pristine reputations and income are in no danger from us knuckle draggers who just play for fun. I too have been a card carrying member of the AFM and so back in those days I guess I was respectable.

Right on! I've never been a "no scabs here" musicians union member (we don't even have those in my area), nor have I cared if other musicians were willing to play for less than me. It is what it is. I don't think anyone should be forced to charge a certain amount, nor clubs pay a certain amount. Let the music, crowds, and business owners sort it all out. If I don't like a club's policy, I don't wanna play there anyways. I don't feel the need to strongarm them into anything.

These days, with people's addiction to their smart devices and instant gratification, we're all lucky anyone wants to see live music anyways. It's sure not the same live performance landscape it used to be. That ship seems to have sailed and I dunno if it'll ever come back. I won't be young enough to jump on it if it does.

[Don Lampson]

Originally Posted by Red_Label

Hmmm... yeah, that's a good point. I was thinking more in regards to some of the homes where things seem a bit run-down and in in need of something joyous in there. I can play for money any time I want, but my thought was to "give back" in some way using the talents/desires I've been blessed-with. So that's exactly why I haven't done any local retirement homes yet... because I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing, in the right place, at the right time.

I've also considered offering to entertain in the hospital cancer wards and hospice type situations... but I'm not sure if I can take that stuff emotionally. I get pretty choked-up when I see people and animals suffering. I want to help, but I feel pretty vulnerable and afraid of the emotional toll it'll take on me. I am a charitable, giving person... but I just dunno if I can handle being exposed to that stuff. I do IT support for our local animal shelter and am always happy to help them. But I HATE actually going there, because it just guts me seeing all of those animals locked in cages because of the irresponsibility of people. So I dread going out there, because I know it'll put me in a funk for a few days.

I was an official hospice musician for a year. It paid very fairly. Everybody I worked with were incredible people. The patrons gave me compliments, some of which were truly heart touching... But it was just too, too, sad for me... It was becoming an unpleasant part of my otherwise wonderful life...

For a musician looking for money, it's a great way to seek one's fortune. There's never an uninterested audience, and you might get other gigs. There are usually people from other death & geezerdom concerns around on the scout for talent.... You're not around drinking. The hours are great! You get paid milage, and a generous wage for required training! One might even make a career out of it. I couldn't take being around while my patron died, and her loved ones grieved...

Don

P.S. I couldn't be a singer in a dog shelter either. There would be too much barking going on!

[leew3]

Originally Posted by Don Lampson

I

P.S. I couldn't be a singer in a dog shelter either. There would be too much barking going on!

This ^^^^ is why I can't practice harmonica at home-my dog loudly objects every time I play. Ironically, though I also play guitar and mandolin reasonably well, the harmonica always gets me compliments.

[jklotz]

Guys, when we are playing a bar, we are not in the music business, we are in the food and beverage business. You are being paid to help/facilitate the bar selling drinks. Can't blame a bar owner for not paying a ton of money to an act that brings in 5 people. It's simple economics. Want to increase your worth? Build a following. Better yet, build a following of heavy drinking people who look good and like to party, because that brings in more people.

Better even still, do it because you love to do it. That's the only way I can justify being a musician these days.

[Mike Sylvia]

Just goes to show how little musicians make.

[MikeBmusic]

Originally Posted by jklotz

Guys, when we are playing a bar, we are not in the music business, we are in the food and beverage business. You are being paid to help/facilitate the bar selling drinks. Can't blame a bar owner for not paying a ton of money to an act that brings in 5 people. It's simple economics. Want to increase your worth? Build a following. Better yet, build a following of heavy drinking people who look good and like to party, because that brings in more people.

Better even still, do it because you love to do it. That's the only way I can justify being a musician these days.

I agree with what I bolded above, but not the 'build a following' part. When you get to the professional point where you are filing the venue with patrons, then the pay scale jumps up 2-3X what a 'bar band'/performer is getting paid. Otherwise you are there to provide entertainment/background music for the bar's patrons - to keep them in their seats drinking/eating.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by jklotz

Guys, when we are playing a bar, we are not in the music business, we are in the food and beverage business. You are being paid to help/facilitate the bar selling drinks. Can't blame a bar owner for not paying a ton of money to an act that brings in 5 people. It's simple economics. Want to increase your worth? Build a following. Better yet, build a following of heavy drinking people who look good and like to party, because that brings in more people.

Better even still, do it because you love to do it. That's the only way I can justify being a musician these days.

Yes, Bringing folks in that buy stuff is what we are for.

Some places are negligent in doing any promotion though. Who is going to bring in more people? Someone with 160 friends on FB or a venue with 5-6K likes?

There are many places that will go to the trouble of talking to you, listening to sound clips and hiring you and then do nothing on the back end. That's poor business and shouldn't be blamed on the musicians - even though they inevitably will.

[12barBill]

Originally Posted by Mike Sylvia

Just goes to show how little musicians make.

That's what I've been thinking as I read through this thread. And if ~30% is going to Uncle Sam right off the top, well...