The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Custom Shop

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 08-29-2016, 08:20 AM
EverettWilliams EverettWilliams is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 755
Default OM-28: to pyramid or to belly?

So, many moons ago, I submitted a deposit to the great Julius Borges for him to build me an OM-28. Unlike other commissions, the request here was pretty simple - make me the best OM-28 you can. And, given examples of his work I've played and heard, I'm confident in what that request means.

As a result, aside from picking the flavor of rosewood, the question is pretty much whether I want the belly or the pyramid. Initially, I'd said belly because I like the look and wanted the flexibility to put mediums on it without concern (but that's less of a factor now than before as I'm regaining appreciation for lights and new mediums). But after playing three original OM-28s in pretty quick succession, I wondered whether there was some magic in the pyramid (of course it's really hard to isolate that as the variable of why the 1929 sang to me a little more than the 1930 or 1932).

Of course, my first step was to ask Julius. His answer was that he's built great guitars with each type and can't draw a sweeping conclusion. As he said, "they're all my kids, but some of them are more articulate."

I also spent some time discussing this with my luthier (who is pretty well known in vintage repair circles). His reaction is that both can be great but that you just have to build the guitar a little differently.

I'm still on the fence (but leaning pyramid). I'd love to know your thoughts!

Thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-29-2016, 08:35 AM
justonwo's Avatar
justonwo justonwo is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 7,120
Default

I'm a huge fan of the pyramid on my 000-12 but ultimately decided on belly for my OM as that was John Slobod's recommendation. There wasn't really a strong push either way, but he said the belly is a little stronger. If you're leaning pyramid, I would go pyramid. The look is so classic.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-29-2016, 09:18 AM
bobernet bobernet is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: a western mountain valley
Posts: 149
Default

I went through the same discussion / process with Brian Applegate on the OM-depth 00-bodied guitar he's building for me. Actually, deciding on a slot head or not and a belly or pyramid were probably the toughest choices.

I've read some more analytical luthiers say that the pyramid bridge design is actually really inefficient. When it comes to mediums, I usually play Martin medium/light hybrids. Brian's suggestion was that light / medium-light would be fine. He's 85% confident that mediums would be too, but that if the bridge started lifting, he'd handle it for me.

In the end, since mine is a 00 and a 12-fret, I decided to go with the traditional pyramid bridge and stick to light strings. On an OM, I think I'd go belly.

Good luck as you work out the internal struggle!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-29-2016, 09:31 AM
EverettWilliams EverettWilliams is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 755
Default

Thank you both for the reply!

I like things about each bridge - and, while I think I gravitate towards the belly from the perspective of what I see in my mind's eye when I think OM-28 - there's something really pretty and delicate about the pyramid.

If one had a clear sonic advantage, I'd pick it in a heartbeat. But it sounds like there's no consensus. And, when your builder says I can meet your objectives with either option, it makes for a tougher choice.

Anyone else got thoughts or experience?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-29-2016, 09:43 AM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: The Isle of Albion
Posts: 22,068
Default

An Orchestra Model is a rhythm instrument - with a long skinny neck, and made for chording - it should have a belly bridge.

The 00 or 000 12 fret should have a pyramid bridge.
__________________
Silly Moustache,
Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer.
I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-29-2016, 10:05 AM
Stevien's Avatar
Stevien Stevien is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Forest Grove, Oregon (God's Country)
Posts: 2,410
Wink

You could always do both, & have the best of both worlds. Martin does a beautiful hybrid, as seen in this link:

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=381530

They have the strength of a belly, & the artistry of a pyramid. I guess it all depends on if your luthier is willing to make one from scratch, or try to get one of Martin's. I don't know if they are available.
Steve
__________________
"Naturally torrified, & unnaturally horrified, since 1954"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-29-2016, 10:09 AM
Stevien's Avatar
Stevien Stevien is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Forest Grove, Oregon (God's Country)
Posts: 2,410
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silly Moustache View Post
An Orchestra Model is a rhythm instrument - with a long skinny neck, and made for chording - it should have a belly bridge.

The 00 or 000 12 fret should have a pyramid bridge.
..... No offense, but I strongly disagree with that statement. The OM is the most versatile beast on the planet, & can be whatever you make it. It surely excels in fingerstyle, & can surely be successful with a pyramid.
Steve
__________________
"Naturally torrified, & unnaturally horrified, since 1954"
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-29-2016, 10:10 AM
Tim McKnight's Avatar
Tim McKnight Tim McKnight is offline
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Morral, Ohio
Posts: 5,929
Default

The belly has a bit more gluing surface and [could] have a tad more weight, depending on the wood used. More weight [could] contribute to bass bias. Either design can work. Let Julius guide and answer your question. It really will depend on what he has done internally and how the top was voiced and only he knows the answer to those questions.
__________________
tim...
www.mcknightguitars.com
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-29-2016, 10:19 AM
TimL TimL is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 317
Default

Martin OM-28s went to the belly bridge in early 1930. So you could use either one and have the vintage look. I'm sure whichever you use this will be an outstanding guitar.

That said I prefer the look of the belly bridge on a paddle head and the pyramid on slot heads.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-29-2016, 11:35 AM
Jimmy Caldwell Jimmy Caldwell is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Horseshoe Bay, Texas
Posts: 340
Default

You've chosen a great builder and either way, I'm sure the guitar will be outstanding. My personal preference would be the pyramid as I think it produces a slightly more responsive guitar, but I've played many fine OM's with belly bridges.
__________________
Jimmy Caldwell
www.barfrets.com
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 08-29-2016, 12:24 PM
Jwills57 Jwills57 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 534
Default

Hello, Guitar Friends--I had luthier Pat Foster build me two OOOO-style guitars in the Martin tradition a couple of years ago, one with an Adirondack-spruce top and one with a German-spruce top. Wonderful guitars in every respect. I went with pyramid bridges on both, just because it's such a classic, refined look. Both guitars are incredible, probably would have been equally incredible with belly bridges, too, but I was just attracted to the look of a pyramid bridge, I guess. Best, Jack
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 08-29-2016, 12:53 PM
usb_chord's Avatar
usb_chord usb_chord is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,627
Default

I'm a diehard pyramid bridge fan and Julius makes a beautiful one. Eric Schoenberg thinks the p bridges are more articulate. I don't disagree...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 08-29-2016, 03:33 PM
iim7V7IM7's Avatar
iim7V7IM7 iim7V7IM7 is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: An Exit Off the Turnpike in New Jersey
Posts: 5,152
Default

Unfortunately, I think that you understand all there is to know going into this posting. You understand the string gage limitations of <.012"-.054" strings with a pyramid bridge. If you think you will play new mediums or mediums get a belly bridge. Julius will make you a winner either way you decide to go. Me, I would go with a belly bridge for long-term robustness and flexibility (just like Martin did!).
__________________
A bunch of nice archtops, flattops, a gypsy & nylon strings…
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 08-29-2016, 03:45 PM
Howard Klepper Howard Klepper is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Earthly Paradise of Northern California
Posts: 6,627
Default

Apart from gluing issues, the pyramid bridge weighs less. This translates (with the elusive ceteris paribus) into the pyramid giving a slightly quicker attack, and the belly a slightly longer sustain.
__________________
"Still a man hears what he wants to hear, and disregards the rest."
--Paul Simon
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 08-29-2016, 04:44 PM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: The Isle of Albion
Posts: 22,068
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stevien View Post
..... No offense, but I strongly disagree with that statement. The OM is the most versatile beast on the planet, & can be whatever you make it. It surely excels in fingerstyle, & can surely be successful with a pyramid.
Steve
Hi Steve - no offence taken.

The OM was designed and introduced by Martin as an "Orchestra Model" - i.e. a rhythm instrument.

It wasn't so successful in that capacity, especially compared to the Gibson archtops.

Yes of course it has proven versatile as a finger-style and rhythm instrument, for those that like skinny necks, as has the dreadnought which followed on shortly after its "OM" conversion in 1934.

This chap describes it fairly well:

http://onemanz.com/guitar/reviews/ac...rtin/om-story/

The originals had pyramid bridges because at that time the belly bridge hadn't been developed.
__________________
Silly Moustache,
Just an old Limey acoustic guitarist, Dobrolist, mandolier and singer.
I'm here to try to help and advise and I offer one to one lessons/meetings/mentoring via Zoom!
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Custom Shop

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:29 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=