Which interface for external pre-amp

[Sage97]

My stand alone DAW is dying so no more recordings for awhile. Researching PC based systems. I really like my FMR RNP and RNC set-up and was hoping to use that in lieu of internal interface systems.

Anybody have any suggestions on where to start looking for a two channel interface to hook up to an external pre-amp? I guess line in connections? Or are internal systems nowadays so good that I should just dump the FMRs?

Thanks.

[anton]

I think most interfaces these days have at least two preamps, and often will have additional line in's.

I have the firestudio mobile which has two pre amps and 6 additional quarter inch inputs. I think its 300 brand new. Since you have already have a preamp combination you like you could get something like that without spending to much money. I guess it also depends on the quality of analog to digital conversion you want, I don't know much about that.

Anton

[Sage97]

Originally Posted by anton

I think most interfaces these days have at least two preamps, and often will have additional line in's.

I have the firestudio mobile which has two pre amps and 6 additional quarter inch inputs. I think its 300 brand new. Since you have already have a preamp combination you like you could get something like that without spending to much money. I guess it also depends on the quality of analog to digital conversion you want, I don't know much about that.

Anton

Thanks Anton.

I'm assuming you don't use any additional pre-amp? How do you like the Studio One Artist?

[Rick Shepherd]

Hi Sage,

I would recommend something that has good AD conversion that will allow you to get the most out of your RNP and RNC. I would not go for a high-end converter unless you plan on upgrading your whole recording chain. Take a look at the M-Audio stuff, like the Profire 610, which may suit your needs. Their gear is well-respected, and of good quality. Without researching it much, I will assume that you need to be able to bypass the preamps of whatever interface you choose.

That Firestudio Mobile looks good too!

If you ever decide to use a Mac instead of a PC, I would recommend the Apogee Duet, which seems to get only great reviews.

I have to contain myself when I give you gear advice, because I know how talented you are, and I naturally want you to spend gobbs of money on only the finest gear. So, when you get that large inheritance, or high-income job, check back with me and I will help you spend it.


BTW, what recording software do you use, and what reverb effects do you use, it sounds very natural.

Take care!

Rick

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by Sage97

My stand alone DAW is dying so no more recordings for awhile. Researching PC based systems. I really like my FMR RNP and RNC set-up and was hoping to use that in lieu of internal interface systems.

Anybody have any suggestions on where to start looking for a two channel interface to hook up to an external pre-amp? I guess line in connections? Or are internal systems nowadays so good that I should just dump the FMRs?

Thanks.

What's your budget? Comfortable plugging in cards? LynxTwo is one I used for a number of years, the L22 is less expensive but PCI slots are becoming rare.

I didn't hear anything from my RNP that I preferred to various integrated interfaces, but that could be my tin ear and/or skeptical disposition.

Fran

[Sage97]

Rick,
Thanks for joining in. Haven't heard from you in ages. The 610 is actually what I have considered and also the echo something with 2 channels that Fran recommended in another thread. Right now I'm using a stand along multi tracker AKAI DPS 16 that is dead. They are no longer being made. I've also been reading a lot on the Apogee/Mac combo that is getting rave reviews. I have to step back and focus on my goals because I can easily get carried away with gear. According to an ex-girlfriend, this whole guitar/recording thing is a hobby that borders on insanity.

Fran,
That is the issue. I keep going back and forth between purchasing another stand alone (much cheaper) or a computer based DAW (computer+interface+software = increased expenses). I am still in research mode and have to keep reminding myself that no one listens to my recordings but me.

Now if you think that a good interface will render my RNP RNC combo useless, I could sell it and use the proceeds as additional funds for a computer based DAW. The GC guy I talked to (I know) told me he owned and preferred his Profire 610 with the RNP RNC combo and I didn't even tell him I had the same set up. But then he also does heavy metal.

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by Sage97

...
Fran,
That is the issue. I keep going back and forth between purchasing another stand alone (much cheaper) or a computer based DAW (computer+interface+software = increased expenses). I am still in research mode and have to keep reminding myself that no one listens to my recordings but me.

Now if you think that a good interface will render my RNP RNC combo useless, I could sell it and use the proceeds as additional funds for a computer based DAW. The GC guy I talked to (I know) told me he owned and preferred his Profire 610 with the RNP RNC combo and I didn't even tell him I had the same set up. But then he also does heavy metal.

There's no way I can tell you what will work for you, I'm afraid. I can only tell you my experience. When I had an RNP RNC combo I found that compressing my recordings was not an improvement. And when I lined up the RNP, a John Hardy, and an M-Audio DMP3, I just couldn't hear any difference. Once again, could be a tin ear, could be that I don't hear it because I have this silly idea that a preamp that has a sound is broken. By definition, a preamp should make the signal bigger (louder) and nothing else, after all.

With the current state of LSI, very decent preamps are pretty easy to make these days. When I swapped out my LynxTwo for my Echo Audiofire Pre8 I did a comparison between the Pre8 and the John Hardy (the RNP was long gone) and once again I couldn't hear a difference. So the Hardy hit the road.

There are lots of reasons beyond the sound to prefer one preamp over another. Ergonomics, reliability, resale value, customer appeal (very important for a pro studio). But for those of us recording ourselves at home for an audience of one, hmmmmmm.

Now, on the other side, since we do this for fun, do you have fun with your RNP/RNC? Will you miss it (like I miss the big smooth knobs on my departed John Hardy preamp)?

This is one of those spots where the options are many and various, they're probably all good, time to make a list of pros and cons, goals and impediments, then just pick a direction and go.

Fran

[Sage97]

Thanks Fran.

The only thing I will miss about the RNC/RNP is the fact that I have the controls set where I like it.


A friend at work is educating me on Mac's garageband. Hmm.. Anybody ever use the Mac mini for recording?

[theotigno]

Originally Posted by Sage97

Hmm.. Anybody ever use the Mac mini for recording?

I do and I use an Echo Audiofire 4 for my interface on that. It works great for me, and I use my modded Presonus MP20 going in direct. I have an external compressor, but after a few sessions, I realize that I don't like my recordings having compression going in. Here are two songs that I recorded with the setup in my "untreated" spare bedroom:

• Urge (performed by Brien Flynn)
• Little Prelude for Love (written and performed by Dr. Michael J.A. Robb)

(edit - I should add that these recordings were doing on Garageband on my Mac Mini ... modded Presonus MP20 as the preamp ... and yes, my percussion skills on Urge do lag a bit on the song ...)

My only issue with the Audiofire is that you need a pretty strong signal going into the 1/4" inputs.

Another interface that I have that may work well for you is the Sound Devices USBPre. I use it with my HP laptop and it seems to have a stronger signal coming in versus the Echo.

[anton]

Sage,

I have not tried the Presonus Studio One software. I use Logic and just stuck with that when i got the Presonus Mobile unit.

As far as recording on the Mac Mini, i do not have one, but do record to my iMac. I would think given the sufficient horse power a Mac Mini would work for recording.

You can use Garage Band, but might want to also check out Reaper (www.reaper.fm) or Logic studio. Garage Band is great for basic things, and if it works for you then thats great. But i find editing in it and handling multiple audio takes clumsy.


Anton

[Sage97]

Thanks guys.

Theo,
Really appreciate the sound files. How does it handle 8 tracks or so (recorded one or two at a time) with each track running their effects. Do you have samples with vocals? PM sent.

Anton,
They have a refurb iMac right now that may just be my Christmas present to myself. But then Theo's Mac mini soundbytes sound great for less moolah. I'll definitely check out Reaper. Do you have any sample recordings? If so would you mind sharing?

Aaannnd....I also have someone who is selling me a manufacturer refurb AKAI DPS24 which is a fantastic multitracker with motorized faders, mastering capabilities, etc. Comes out the same with amount if I were to go with the Mac mini plus interface.

Decisions, decisions.

[alohachris]

Aloha Sage,

If you're going w/ a Mac (advisable for DAW recording), then I strongly recommend the fully-integrated two-channel Apogee Duet ($400) or a used multi-channel Ensemble ($1400 used), as your interface choice. Costs more than you'd like but is worth it - to me anyway.

The iMac is a much better value with more expandability than the Mac Mini. The current price difference isn't that great anymore (the mini moved up). It's worth the stretch.

No matter your DAW, you should consider using a computer for recording only w/ external HD's. Fewer hassles.

Apple & Apogee fully integrate their hardware & software for seamless, mostly hassle-free, simple recording with few if any crashes or error messages. That was worth it to me & the reason I left PC's for recording. Apogee quality is much better than the brands you've been looking at. Echofire is not bad as a more affordable multi-track interface but has latency issues. Presonus, Lexicon, most Avid's or M-Audio interfaces - not worth the ride, IMO.

The mic preamps on the Apogee's are so good, you may not even need an external preamp.

BTW, the key combo of external mic preamps is NOT with the interface, but with the mic. More energy should be put into that search, IMO.

RE: DAW's. I advise you to download free samples of the main DAW's & get a feel for the workflow of each - before you commit. One DAW will speak to your sensibilities better than the others & that's the one to choose. It's all about being comfortable with the workflow. THey work similarly but are all different.

You should also go to the user forum's of the DAW's you're considering to see what the key issues, problems & solutions are for most users. And they ALL have problems - not only end-user problems either.

For example, I liked Reaper, but not nearly as much as Pro Logic 9 for flow & features. And PTLE was a complete disaster for me while others love it. So check 'em out in advance to find DA ONE.

Also, with every Mac, you get free Garageband. You may not even need Reaper at all. GB is a good place to get your feet wet w/ DAW recording. It is kind of clunky for editing.

You can also get great training through Apple's one-to-one program. Last year, I received hour-long, on on one Logic Pro training sessions at my local Apple store - 56 sessions in all - for only $99. And I renewed the extension for this year as well. Can't beat that!

As your ex-girl said, DAW's ARE madness. So it really helps to have someone de-mystify them for ya along the way.

For me, after a couple years in DAW's, the MADNESS is not so much in how to use the DAW signal chain, but computer recording itself. With me, computers require the use of a different part of my aging brain than the part I use for creating & playing music. I find I simply cannot do it for very long without inhibiting the music creation. It's not a game-stopper but is a consideration in my preparation & for how I use my time on DAW's - any of them.

All the best to you, Sage.

A Hui Hou!
alohachris

[Sage97]

Thanks Chris.

I went ahead and got the iMac and I should have it by Wednesday (can you believe that?). I have a friend here that suggested trying the Garageband for starters and going from there. I also already have an external HD that has been serving me well and is nowhere near capacity.

The Apogee Duet sure looks like its the one.

My LDC is a Rode NTK that comes with its own power source. IMO, it works well with my vocals. My SDC is a pair of Studio Projects C4 that could use a little upgrade but isn't bad for my mediocre playing.

What are the downsides of using that a Mac that functions as a DAW and a computer?

[theotigno]

Originally Posted by Sage97

How does it handle 8 tracks or so (recorded one or two at a time) with each track running their effects.

It runs well on 8 tracks. The limiting factor is that you can only have two *customized* effects on each channel. It comes with a compressor, reverb, and EQ (all of which are not very good, except the reverb which is a little above not very good). I currently use a plug-in from Metric Halo (Channel Strip) that helps this issue (compressor, limiter, EQ).

Originally Posted by Sage97

Do you have samples with vocals?

I do, but these were done with straight mini-pin input on the back of the Mac Mini:

Vow - Vocals recorded right after the song was written ... around 8:30 am. It was meant to be a scratch track, but I just kept it. The background vocals were recorded a few weeks later. My vocals were done on an SM57 into an ART Tube Pre. The background vocals were done with an MXL 603s into the Presonus.

Body of Christ - Vocals using the Presonus MP20, but again, using the mini-pin direct input.

I'll look through my files and see if I can post one that uses the Echo Audiofire as the converter.

[moon]

If someone is looking at DAWs it's traditional for me to plug Ardour (see link in my sig). It's very good but doesn't have midi although that's coming soon.