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  #16  
Old 07-28-2019, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankHudson View Post
A question (not a challenge, a real question)….

Why are any of the participants in the thread concerned with getting the absolute fastest hard drive throughput? I'll have to admit my recording projects run fairly low track counts of actual audio (a dozen or so tops) but I never had a problem even with mechanical hard drives on disk speed (I would use a dedicated disk for recording as was the convention at the time). Are people actually having recording errors based on inadequate disk write speed without PCI based m.2 storage of the fastest spec? Is it something else you're gaining/preventing?
A fair question but as you note based on "individual" situation. For example if someone is only recording a few audio tracks and using none or very little plug in processing then depending on actual DAW CPU usage demands, there may be no significant noticeable difference., switching from SATA to PCIe, storage

Back to the question (one to which there are numerous possible variables and answers) where faster might be a factor, yes even for the participants in this thread (also possibly widely varied in situational needs ) .

If the DAW being used has heavy CPU usage ( Yes with Pro tools I have had a few instances of running out of CPU with only say 8 or 10 audio and 6 ot 8 VI's tracks all going with real time processing. Particularly before upgrading to a PCIe SSD Boot drive, and RAM loding of sessions.

Other possible reasons include
If multiple plugins with heavy CPU draw are being used real time .
If significant amounts of editing of audio has not been cleared from storage
If multiple Virtual Instruments with heavy CPU draw are used in real time (sometimes my case )
If Virtual Instrument libraries with large amounts of content are used (where search and retrieval involve huge amounts of data )
Anytime video processing and rendering is involved (sometimes my case)
If track counts of processed audio and Midi start to climb.

Then there is the concept that:
Given the general trend is such that, as software gets more and more features and more complex , it typically demands more speed, so in looking to the future to "future proof" ones computer, there is only "too little" processing power.
I have yet to hear someone utter the phrase "I wish my computer was slower and less capable"
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  #17  
Old 07-28-2019, 08:43 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankHudson View Post
A question (not a challenge, a real question)Ö.

Why are any of the participants in the thread concerned with getting the absolute fastest hard drive throughput? I'll have to admit my recording projects run fairly low track counts of actual audio (a dozen or so tops) but I never had a problem even with mechanical hard drives on disk speed (I would use a dedicated disk for recording as was the convention at the time). Are people actually having recording errors based on inadequate disk write speed without PCI based m.2 storage of the fastest spec? Is it something else you're gaining/preventing?
When I bought my iMac a couple of years ago, I went with power and speed for a couple of reasons.

One, I sometimes use a good amount of vst instruments and those will test a machine at some point. Two, some plugins are very hungry. Plus, the load times for Pro Tools can be very slow. On my old machine it would take well over a minute, sometimes closer to two, before a session would load.

Two, it's a way to future-proof yourself to some degree. Yes, I can save money building a machine that meets the needs I have today, but will the same machine meet the needs I have in 6-8 years? There's no way to exactly predict the requirements of the future with any real degree of accuracy but it's a safe bet to say we'll need more power and speed rather than less power and speed.

These are lessons learned from experience. In the past I bought computers based on current needs. It was very often a move I regretted later. I changed that attitude with my last PC build. I built it a decade ago and it hasn't fallen short for me in that time. I'm in the process of replacing it now because one component on it has failed and I'm taking that as a sign.
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  #18  
Old 07-31-2019, 05:07 PM
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OK just ordered the Crest controller and the Samsung EVO's
Crest backordered until Aug 7
But I will post an update after I get and install them
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  #19  
Old 08-08-2019, 06:56 PM
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OK got some free time this afternoon So I installed the IOCrest and the EVO 970's
First I have the say the "QUOTE" User Manual for the Crest is a total joke Gives absolutely nothing about how to install the drives on it.

So it took several mounting attempts to figure out the how to position the little spacer nuts that come with the Crest so as to get the EVO blades riding parallel to card surface slightly off the card surface. The spacer nuts (2 of them) are larger diameter one side and smaller diameter on the other side (the smaller side that slots down flush into hole in the card) and threaded on both sides so you have to use one screw to secure the spacer nut to the card and one screw to secure the blade to the spacer nut .....NONE of which is stated in the silly manual which is simply a spec. list. On my first attempt I did not use the spacer nuts at all, and the card sat at a slight downward angle from the connection slotted blade side to the other end with the 1/2 circle screw side (WHICH did not look correct to me) So I had to play with using positioning the spacer screws to finally get EVO parallel to the Crest surface and slightly elevated off the surface at both ends ....

Once all that was done I installed the Crest into my Mac into the #2 slot from the bottom (16 lane) and moved my PTHD card to slot 3 and my SM951 boot drive to slot 4 (top)

I plugged all connectors back into the Mac and fired it up ( this first boot took about 40 seconds )
I have now started from power on to desktop, 3 times and it is still about 40 seconds (which is 10 seconds slower then before installing the Crest.

The New drives were not showing on the desktop but were showing in Disk Utilities so I erased and formatted them APFS and bang there they were . I transferred a couple PT sessions to one EVO tested and it worked fine.


So first thing I did was transfer my PT session file folder from my HDD to one EVO it was a 70 GB file and transferred fine. I have tested about 6 PT sessions so far so good

Now I am in process of transferring my FCPX library folder which is a 189 GB and it is going fine so far



I will report back when I have done some more PT and FX mixing and recording and editing But pretty good so far

Next step will be to upgrade to Mojave ( just about in time for "Catalina " to come out )
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  #20  
Old 08-08-2019, 07:14 PM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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I'm very curious to read your comments regarding how fast things are loading once you're all finished.

I've got my Sabrent 2TB Rocket Gen4 M.2 sitting here waiting for my new pc build to get started. Everything is here but the cpu which I voluntarily took a bath on yesterday. I ordered the Ryzen 3900x through B&H Photo because they told me I'd get one from the next batch to come in (every store is out of stock). I called for an update yesterday morning and was told that not only was I not in the next batch, I may not even make the cut for the batch after that unless it was a larger quantity than what was expected. So I went on ebay and bought a $500 cpu for $700. The cpu will be here tomorrow.
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  #21  
Old 08-09-2019, 06:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
I'm very curious to read your comments regarding how fast things are loading once you're all finished.

I've got my Sabrent 2TB Rocket Gen4 M.2 sitting here waiting for my new pc build to get started. Everything is here but the cpu which I voluntarily took a bath on yesterday. I ordered the Ryzen 3900x through B&H Photo because they told me I'd get one from the next batch to come in (every store is out of stock). I called for an update yesterday morning and was told that not only was I not in the next batch, I may not even make the cut for the batch after that unless it was a larger quantity than what was expected. So I went on ebay and bought a $500 cpu for $700. The cpu will be here tomorrow.
To clarify the new Crest card and the two drive are replacing the old SATA HDDs as the storage drives for PT on one drive and FCPX on the other. So I am hoping that especially for FCPX it will the rendering time that will will improve.
So as I said I was a bit surprised that the Computer power on to showing desktop time seemed to have increased a bit but hopefully the processing times will decrease. Other than that the launch times maybe somewhat faster but I never really timed them when I switched to

As far as PT is concerned the app is on my Boot SSD which I put in almost two years ago and that loding time was a significant improvement over the old HDD. launching PT used to take a minute or more , but since going PCIe SSD boot about 15 to 20 seconds. It now seems about 10-20 seconds or less. I will do some more loading time tests and report back. I am assuming that if I made one of the two NVMe EVO drives my boot drive my launch times would be noticeably faster.
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Last edited by KevWind; 08-13-2019 at 08:13 AM.
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  #22  
Old 09-07-2019, 05:48 PM
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One final update
I am now on Mojave 10.14.5 and running the latests Pro tools
And I just Got Studio One 4.5.3

And I have to say I am pretty impressed have had no CPU errors at all !!
PT loads in about 20 seconds and sessions launch in 10 -20 depending on how big a session,

Studio One loads in less than 10 seconds and I only have couple small sessions they launch almost instantly.

All in all I am very pleased and guessing I will be staying with this machine for another 3 to 5 years
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  #23  
Old 09-07-2019, 06:42 PM
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Very cool, Kev. Those m.2 drives are really amazing. My new pc boots up in well under a minute. Two months ago I had never even heard of an m.2 drive.
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  #24  
Old 09-08-2019, 10:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jim1960 View Post
Very cool, Kev. Those m.2 drives are really amazing. My new pc boots up in well under a minute. Two months ago I had never even heard of an m.2 drive.
I have yet to try and rendering in FCPX (to see if there will be a good improvement in time)
But so far for audio I am liking it
As I understand when Apple goes to Catalina they will not support any 5.1 era machines (which does not mean it will not work but simply means they will not support it) But given that my Mac Pro is a studio dedicated machine (I have a laptop for internet surfing) As long as it is stable I don't think I will mind staying put at Mojave ,,,,time will tell
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  #25  
Old 09-09-2019, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
I have yet to try and rendering in FCPX (to see if there will be a good improvement in time)
But so far for audio I am liking it
As I understand when Apple goes to Catalina they will not support any 5.1 era machines (which does not mean it will not work but simply means they will not support it) But given that my Mac Pro is a studio dedicated machine (I have a laptop for internet surfing) As long as it is stable I don't think I will mind staying put at Mojave ,,,,time will tell
Some years back I did some mixing for a guy out here in Topanga (heavyweight in the TV, Film World). I don’t remember the exact specifics of his rig other than to say he was using a software solution of which both DAW’s and his OS were at least 7 or 8 years behind the current versions, maybe more. I recall Pro Tools had changed (looks-wise) a bunch since the early days and looking at his session was a “brings back memory’s” moment. He’s an affable enough gent so I didn’t mind asking him if he had any plans to upgrade. His simple answer was “why on earth would I do that?”

That mantra of course much more difficult to maintain in other areas of computing (graphics, video and the like) but for audio one can maintain a viable, well running solution on a fixed OS and software version for a very long time.

Last edited by Joseph Hanna; 09-09-2019 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna View Post
Some years back I did some mixing for a guy out here in Topanga (heavyweight in the TV, Film World). I don’t remember the exact specifics of his rig other than to say he was using a software solution of which both DAW’s and his OS were at least 7 or 8 years behind the current versions, maybe more. I recall Pro Tools had changed (looks-wise) a bunch since the early days and looking at his session was a “brings back memory’s” moment. He’s an affable enough gent so I didn’t mind asking him if he had any plans to upgrade. His simple answer was “why on earth would I do that?”

That mantra of course much more difficult to maintain in other areas of computing (graphics, video and the like) but for audio one can maintain a viable, well running solution on a fixed OS and software version for a very long time.
Indeed I have a friend/ guitar teacher and band member who has a dedicated project basement studio complete with iso vocal booth , live room, mix room, double wall sound proofing, and absorption treatment, etc. Who still runs PT LE 8 on an old Mac Pro G 4

BTW Partially because of your review thread , I just got Studio One 4.5.3 on a sale Sweetwater had, and I am trying to learn it's workflow. There are some things that are not quite as refined as PT but no doubt a lot of that is just keystroke differences
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  #27  
Old 09-09-2019, 09:59 AM
jim1960 jim1960 is offline
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One can absolutely stay with an older computer and an older version of Pro Tools, but newer versions have certainly made some things much easier.

Comping tracks is a great example. I remember 20 years ago when we had to cut and paste which would leave you with all kinds of clicks and pops where two segments joined. Then you'd have to find the noise, magnify in very close, and use the pencil tool to get rid of it. That was incredibly time consuming. The comping process is beautifully streamlined now.

I don't want to run old software if the new version makes life easier.
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  #28  
Old 09-09-2019, 01:41 PM
Brent Hahn Brent Hahn is offline
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One can absolutely stay with an older computer and an older version of Pro Tools, but newer versions have certainly made some things much easier.
For tracking and overdubbing I'm still using PT TDM whenever possible. I can get around on the new native systems with an Apollo or whatever, but I'd really rather not.
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Old 09-09-2019, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
BTW Partially because of your review thread , I just got Studio One 4.5.3 on a sale Sweetwater had, and I am trying to learn it's workflow. There are some things that are not quite as refined as PT but no doubt a lot of that is just keystroke differences
Yea itís a chore (and frustrating) rethinking virtually everything. Especially if, like me, youíve got your nose in Pro Tools 10 hours a day for your day job and ya gotta switch gears in the evening for home music stuff. Still, Iím more than convinced Studio One is, if not more so, as capable as Pro Tools for music production and iíd vigorously argue there are many things in Pro Tools that are not as refined as Studio One I use the Pro Tools overview (within Studio One so I donít lose everything quick key-wise) and have just learned to love the rest of the Studio Oneís work flow.

Iím certain after all these years Iíll take Pro Tools into my retirement (good lord willing of course) but Iím pretty steadfast in my recommendation, especially to new users, that Studio One is a beast gathering momentum!
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Old 09-10-2019, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna View Post
Yea it’s a chore (and frustrating) rethinking virtually everything. Especially if, like me, you’ve got your nose in Pro Tools 10 hours a day for your day job and ya gotta switch gears in the evening for home music stuff. Still, I’m more than convinced Studio One is, if not more so, as capable as Pro Tools for music production and i’d vigorously argue there are many things in Pro Tools that are not as refined as Studio One I use the Pro Tools overview (within Studio One so I don’t lose everything quick key-wise) and have just learned to love the rest of the Studio One’s work flow.

I’m certain after all these years I’ll take Pro Tools into my retirement (good lord willing of course) but I’m pretty steadfast in my recommendation, especially to new users, that Studio One is a beast gathering momentum!
I just last nite found the S1 option to select the Pro Tools keyboard shortcuts . BUT for some reason the "command > =/+ shortcut , to switch from edit to mix window, is not working.

But I agree some things are more refined in S1.
I love the swipe to select track/s > select Bus, and have them auto routed to the bus track
I think what I am missing the most is the PT multi tool.
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