Rethinking The Idea Of "Tonewood"

[perttime]

"It wasn't used in Martin guitars 100 years ago" is not a good reason to reject a material.

I have not tried these new Taylors. I have tried a few guitars in "non-tropical" woods, and heard a bunch more. They were good. Some were not quite to my taste but that goes for some "tropical wood" guitars too.

[Wonderwall]

Originally Posted by perttime

"It wasn't used in Martin guitars 100 years ago" is not a good reason to reject a material.

I have not tried these new Taylors. I have tried a few guitars in "non-tropical" woods, and heard a bunch more. They were good. Some were not quite to my taste but that goes for some "tropical wood" guitars too.

I've always wanted to try a test where I tell the listener that the guitar I'm playing is Madagascar Rosewood, so hearing a bit more "midrange" than Indian Rosewood may be normal. And it isn't until the listener tells me whether they preferred the Indian Rosewood version or the Madagascar Rosewood version, that I suddenly reveal that it wasn't Madagascar Rosewood at all but Ovangkol or Granadillo. I'd be very curious to see how much people's preferences are influenced by the prestige of the wood.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by perttime

"It wasn't used in Martin guitars 100 years ago" is not a good reason to reject a material.

I have not tried these new Taylors. I have tried a few guitars in "non-tropical" woods, and heard a bunch more. They were good. Some were not quite to my taste but that goes for some "tropical wood" guitars too.

The expensive tonewood in golden era Martin guitars was the spruce. And maple was for the finest Gibson guitars only. Economics played a large part in the Martin material selection. Mahogany and rosewood became the tone of the acoustic guitar because of economic factors. In a similar way that the Strat and the Tele became the tone of the electric guitar largely by accident and economics - then usage by musicians embedded that tone in culture.

[cdkrugjr]

A mass production shop needs a source of consistent wood. They can’t be adjusting their build every time this wood or that wood comes along. Nothing wrong with that; it’s given us literal tons of great guitars over the years.

The question in mass production isn’t “Does it make a good guitar.” . . The right luthier will make an AMAZING guitar out of papier-mâché, see Torres; but rather “Can Martin/Taylor/Gibson/Yamaha/etc make a Martin/Taylor/Gibson/Yamaha out of this wood.”

Give a mass producer a pile of lumber and they’ll build a pile of guitars similar to the ones they’ve always built. When you talk about Adi vs Sitka vs Hog, sure you can make some broad generalizations, but apply that to “D-28 vs D-18 vs D-15” all of a sudden you have something definite to hang on. The “smooth mellow sound of Mahogony” is going to sound very different on a Taylor than it will on a Martin.

And that’s a good thing.

[Mandobart]

This topic is getting a lot of buzz here on the AGF at least:


Urban Iron Bark?

Taylor 514CE Urban Ironbark Demo and Mini-review


Breedlove has been marketing their "Eco-Tonewood" for a while now. Didn't get much attention here.

[musicman1951]

I suppose there is some comfort in Rosewood and Mahogany as known commodities. I tend to go by sound, rather than wood choice. African Blackwood was never on my radar until I heard it on my Lowden. I'll take any wood that sounds wonderful to my ear.

Marketing is not even close to my area of expertise, but I'm guessing they'll get some mileage from being environmentally responsible, and there's certainly nothing wrong with that.

[RP]

Originally Posted by musicman1951

I suppose there is some comfort in Rosewood and Mahogany as known commodities. I tend to go by sound, rather than wood choice. African Blackwood was never on my radar until I heard it on my Lowden. I'll take any wood that sounds wonderful to my ear.

Marketing is not even close to my area of expertise, but I'm guessing they'll get some mileage from being environmentally responsible, and there's certainly nothing wrong with that.

I think the issue is swapping out a relatively unknown "street tree" for the more traditional mahogany in the 500 series. As another member previously suggested, Taylor. would have been on less shaky ground if they'd just started a new line featuring Urban Iron Bark and even put a hold on the 500 series if scarcity of mahogany was the issue. I think that even innovative companies need to build some tradition in their lineup. I used to be a died-in-the-wool Taylor fanboy, but this feels a bit like a bait-and-switch kind of like Ford selling a four-door family sedan as a Mustang...

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by RogerPease

Anyone else remember the pallet wood guitar? _RP

I played it when Bob Taylor brought it to our store on 48th St, NYC around 1996 or so.

The nails stubs were still in their original locations, and it played and sounded like a Taylor guitar.

Regards,
Howard Emerson

[turtlejimmy]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

In a similar way that the Strat and the Tele became the tone of the electric guitar largely by accident and economics - then usage by musicians embedded that tone in culture.

I wonder what Les Paul would think about that statement. I'm sure Fender would love to think of itself as THE tone of the electric guitar, but then there's all those Gibsons.



Turtle

[rollypolly]

If it saves some rainforests and gives jobs to Americans, I’m all for it. It’s a bit cliche but I think it’s a win win. Like Robin said, mahogany and rosewood were initially used for economic reasons. So for the same reasons, eventually they may start using completely different woods that are affordable and accessible. If that’s a type of eucalyptus or cherry or walnut, that’s fine with me. Taylor is way beyond Martin in this. And I really like the clarity of the walnut in my Gibson.

[zombywoof]

If I recall properly, it was John Greven who once said spruce is spruce, get over it. While he agreed various species differed structurally but only a little bit. His point was the sound and feel of a guitar came down more to the knowledge and skill of the builder than the lumber it was fashioned with.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by turtlejimmy

I wonder what Les Paul would think about that statement. I'm sure Fender would love to think of itself as THE tone of the electric guitar, but then there's all those Gibsons.
Turtle

We musicians are a funny lot
The truth is we as individuals decide what our notion of the classic sound of electric or acoustic guitar is,, based on our subjective perceptions
The reality is that the sound of electrics in the 60's (arguably the era that brought the electric guitar to prominence) probably consisted of more or less equal numbers of Fender, Gibson, Gretsch, Rickenbacker and then a smattering of other lesser know brands .
Just like the acoustic sound of 60's was Martin, Gibson, Guild et. al.

And it is only we the guitar players who care about what brand or what tone wood is involved But even if the audience does not care it is still completely relevant the players do..

Back to OP No Taylor is not changing the image of tonewood per.se. But the may be helping to bring about more consideration as to what is sustainable

[CASD57]

I'm a see-it-to-believe kind of guy....

I tried some of Breedlove's tonewood guitars and it didn't thrill me...
But as much as I wanted to like Breedlove guitars and wanted to have a Jeff Bridges sig guitar, I don't like them..Sorry

I wanted a Martin... Sorry

Gibson....Sorry

Concert size guitars..Sorry

I guess what I'm getting to..(long winded) is I need to play the guitar even if I've heard 1000 positive reviews or Negative reviews.

And Because they are all just opinions until I play one

I like Okume and Ovangkol and I'm ready to find that really special Tonewood and I'm glad Taylor is willing to take a Chance with fire kindling
Whether I spend $3000+/- on a guitar, any guitar for that matter will be seen.. But never say...Never!

[turtlejimmy]

Originally Posted by CASD57

I guess what I'm getting to..(long winded) is I need to play the guitar even if I've heard 1000 positive reviews or Negative reviews.

And Because they are all just opinions until I play one

That's the bottom line for all guitar selection for me. Not only are they just opinions, but everyone has different taste. Over the years, I've only purchased, sound unheard, one acoustic guitar. It didn't go well and that guitar no longer resides here. I heard, not a thousand, but copious amounts of reviews of the Martin D18, all good, which put it on my radar. It wasn't until I bumped into one and was able to hear for myself that I decided to buy one. This guitar will probably be with me for a long time.



Turtle

[cdkrugjr]

Originally Posted by turtlejimmy

I wonder what Les Paul would think about that statement. I'm sure Fender would love to think of itself as THE tone of the electric guitar, but then there's all those Gibsons.



Turtle

It’s been said that no guitar sold so many Les Paul’s as Jimmy Page’s Telecaster…