Tone Master Princeton Reverb?

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by rmp

Maybe, and maybe not

I had a few of the first version mustangs. They are both over 10 years old.

They never failed me, and the people who own them now are using them more than I did.

so 10+ years for amps that cost what these cost at the time, and they still work today like they did when new? To me still seems to be a winner.

And exactly how much would you pay for them now?

[Rad]

I had a Princeton Reverb, RI. Loved the tone but got tired of tubes and sold the amp. I will try the Tone Master when it shows up at my local shop.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

Anyone who buys a vacuum-tube-based amp today because they fear "digital" replacement parts for a Tonemaster won't be available in 20 years time is betting on the wrong horse.

In the late-90's I went to the Glen Cove L.I. Guitar Center in search of a gigging combo amp in the 50W+/- range...

I narrowed my choices down to a first-generation Line 6 Flextone Plus and an Ampeg Reverberocket - both selling for the identical price...

While the Ampeg was tonally superior, there was a great deal of concern at the time about the availability of replacement tubes in the future...

Long story short, today the Line 6 and matching full-feature pedalboard (an extra-cost necessity to access all the features) is worth about one-fourth what I paid for the combination on a good day, based solely on its pristine condition - and firmware/software is totally non-existent...

Anyone else remember how the Johnson was supposed to be the amp wave of the future...?

Although Western Electric has started making tubes again, the concern over future non-availability is indeed genuine and well-founded given international conditions - as is the concern regarding the customary planned obsolescence of digitally-based electronics...

Oh, and the Ampeg - even lesser-condition examples sell for at least as much as brand-new ones did 25 years ago...

Learned the hard way, but as long as I have viable options I'll choose tone every time...

[Brent Hutto]

Steve,

A Tonemaster doesn't have have or need any software to become obsolete or unavailable. That's part of the concept.

The only thing that would make a 20-year-old Tonemaster no longer work would be a mechanical or electronic failure. If it's mechanical (speaker, switch, knob, etc.) that's as fixable as on any tube amp. If it's electronic it's a matter of whether you can source the field replaceable module that's broken.

[Bushleague]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

Steve,

A Tonemaster doesn't have have or need any software to become obsolete or unavailable. That's part of the concept.

The only thing that would make a 20-year-old Tonemaster no longer work would be a mechanical or electronic failure. If it's mechanical (speaker, switch, knob, etc.) that's as fixable as on any tube amp. If it's electronic it's a matter of whether you can source the field replaceable module that's broken.

My point being, that I'd put better odds on being able to get replacement tubes for my Traynor in 20 years than I would on being able to get replacement parts for my Boss Katana.

Fortnuately the Boss is priced appropriately, IMO the TM is not... but once everyone else comes out with their take on the idea I can see Tubemaster type amps being priced much lower, or tube amp prices going up even more.

[rmp]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

And exactly how much would you pay for them now?

yea,, I know they're worth what they are worth. $100/$125 If that??

and I am ok with that, never once took them as anything but disposable items.

My point is, they work as they worked on Day One. that's all I was saying.

The debate on them being impossible to service one they reach end of life with the manufacture is 100% valid.

These were bought as "toys" I was curious to see what the hype was all about.

I only gigged once with one of them, and it didn't cut the mustard to be honest about it.

I have 3 Marshalls that all the real "business" is done with.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by Bushleague

My point being, that I'd put better odds on being able to get replacement tubes for my Traynor in 20 years than I would on being able to get replacement parts for my Boss Katana.

Fortnuately the Boss is priced appropriately, IMO the TM is not... but once everyone else comes out with their take on the idea I can see Tubemaster type amps being priced much lower, or tube amp prices going up even more.

I am noticing tube amp prices going up quite a bit lately. The Tonemaster prices have also gone up a little bit, but good tube amps seem to be going up even more. For example, the handwired version of a Fender Deluxe Reverb was ~$2500 not long ago and now it's at just about $3K.

- Glenn

[rokdog49]

I have a Vox Pathfinder R. They were produced in the early 2000’s and sold for $119.95. It sounds just like a Vox tube amp but it’s digital.

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/VO...saAqE4EALw_wcB

Specs
15 watts
10”Bulldog Blue Speaker
Line Out
Tremolo
Reverb
Gain Switch
Weight:15 lbs.
These never really took off
I’ve gigged with it on many occasions.
They are pretty scarce. I’m keeping mine

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by rokdog49

I have a Vox Pathfinder R. They were produced in the early 2000’s and sold for $119.95. It sounds just like a Vox tube amp but it’s digital.

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/VO...saAqE4EALw_wcB

Specs
15 watts
10”Bulldog Blue Speaker
Line Out
Tremolo
Reverb
Gain Switch
Weight:15 lbs.
These never really took off
I’ve gigged with it on many occasions.
They are pretty scarce. I’m keeping mine

I remember those as sounding pretty darn good too.

[rokdog49]

They do sound great!

That one is a steal!

I wouldn’t part with mine for anything close to that.
Then again, as I said earlier, I’m keeping it.

[dnf777]

I have a Princeton TM on order with delivery next week, hopefully. (Will post an A/B when able).

I ordered it for the same reason I bought my Princeton tube amp— love the size, tone, and 10” speaker at lower volumes. Plus saving almost 20#. If you consider the weight of an installed attenuator, it is a 20# saving.

As for the concern of parts availability in 10 years, that equally applies to the fridge, tv, dryer, and ME! (And of course, vacuum tubes just to be fair). Not going to hold TMs to an exclusive standard in that regard.

I find the following slant on these interesting: honestly, the tonemaster is a single model emulator pedal mounted in a speaker cab that looks like the original amp thats being emulated. One could easily purchase a modern powered cab and several (or one multi unit) such as a strymon iridium, helix stomp, or the UA series of emulator pedals, and emulate any number of classic amps.

Why does limiting to ONE model, in a convincing disguise grab our fancy? I dont know, but it should be here next week! BTW, a very similar transition occurred in film-to-digital cameras, with similar undertones of traditionalism vs innovation, and attempts to wed the two into a marketable package.

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by dnf777

I have a Princeton TM on order with delivery next week, hopefully. (Will post an A/B when able).

I ordered it for the same reason I bought my Princeton tube amp— love the size, tone, and 10” speaker at lower volumes. Plus saving almost 20#. If you consider the weight of an installed attenuator, it is a 20# saving.

As for the concern of parts availability in 10 years, that equally applies to the fridge, tv, dryer, and ME! (And of course, vacuum tubes just to be fair). Not going to hold TMs to an exclusive standard in that regard.

I find the following slant on these interesting: honestly, the tonemaster is a single model emulator pedal mounted in a speaker cab that looks like the original amp thats being emulated. One could easily purchase a modern powered cab and several (or one multi unit) such as a strymon iridium, helix stomp, or the UA series of emulator pedals, and emulate any number of classic amps.

Why does limiting to ONE model, in a convincing disguise grab our fancy? I dont know, but it should be here next week! BTW, a very similar transition occurred in film-to-digital cameras, with similar undertones of traditionalism vs innovation, and attempts to wed the two into a marketable package.

I'll be interested in your report. I've asked a variation of your concluding question a few times here. Human nature-wise I understand the temptation dangers of a multitude of options. One can get lost in analysis paralysis. Or one can just say "I only really want/need one good sound." And complicated "dance of the buttons" panel interfaces or too-soon-to-be-deprecated computer/phone interface apps can rankle. However, what I've done with most modelers I've used is find a few good sounds, and maybe concentrate on one or two, and so I turn the amp on and I play just like I do with a conventional amp. Now my "good sound" may not be yours or the next person, and beginners don't even know what their "good sound" is yet until they experience it. Thus the value of the wide-ranging modeler.

From modelers, playing attention to other players, and owning a few amps over the years I now have preferences formed.

I think you hint at another reason some like the ToneMaster line -- other than good sound and light weight, which ain't chopped liver: guitar players can be a romantic/conservative lot. A lot of us like our 1950s guitar designs, we like our traditional colors and finishes, so a ToneMaster amp that looks the part gets cast in the part. Yes, that's non-rational, but musicians can be like that.

[Brent Hutto]

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

I think you hint at another reason some like the ToneMaster line -- other than good sound and light weight, which ain't chopped liver: guitar players can be a romantic/conservative lot. A lot of us like our 1950s guitar designs, we like our traditional colors and finishes, so a ToneMaster amp that looks the part gets cast in the part. Yes, that's non-rational, but musicians can be like that.

Given who Fender is and who their customer base is, that's the key element that has made the Tonemaster range a success. Some can place a Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb on stage behind them, it will look and sound for all the world like they are playing a Deluxe Reverb and the player can completely put it out of his mind that he's playing anything other than a Deluxe Reverb.

The identity of "I'm playing through a Deluxe Reverb" is a very real thing and a surprising (to me) number of traditional tube amp players are willing to stretch that identify to a Tonemaster. But only if it looks and operates very closely to the same as a tube amp.

[rmp]

Originally Posted by Brent Hutto

Given who Fender is and who their customer base is, that's the key element that has made the Tonemaster range a success. Some can place a Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb on stage behind them, it will look and sound for all the world like they are playing a Deluxe Reverb and the player can completely put it out of his mind that he's playing anything other than a Deluxe Reverb.

The identity of "I'm playing through a Deluxe Reverb" is a very real thing and a surprising (to me) number of traditional tube amp players are willing to stretch that identify to a Tonemaster. But only if it looks and operates very closely to the same as a tube amp.

I've never had a Deluxe, until I got the TMDR (Blonde version) so I'm not sure I fall into that line,, you could be right tho

My only other fender tube amp was a 4x10 HOT ROD Deville that I picked up in like 1998ish (that was a beast but the gain channel was just not up to snuff).

My kid has a 68 RI Deluxe, and the day he bought his, we put them side by side, set identically, it was just about impossible to tell them apart. I'm sure some guys could hear the difference, we could not. we were both kind of surprised by the results.

I'm more a Marshall guy.. (have three of them, all Tube, NO CODE amps)

The thing with the tone master DR is it just sounds "right" to me.

Using that nifty little attenuator, I can get that "spank" that we all dig, with out putting the volume out of reach.

The TMDR does what it does, very well, it's one of my favorite little combos. So easy to move too!

[Brent Hutto]

Originally Posted by rmp

I've never had a Deluxe, until I got the TMDR (Blonde version) so I'm not sure I fall into that line,, you could be right tho

My only other fender tube amp was a 4x10 HOT ROD Deville that I picked up in like 1998ish (that was a beast but the gain channel was just not up to snuff).

My kid has a 68 RI Deluxe, and the day he bought his, we put them side by side, set identically, it was just about impossible to tell them apart. I'm sure some guys could hear the difference, we could not. we were both kind of surprised by the results.

I'm more a Marshall guy.. (have three of them, all Tube, NO CODE amps)

The thing with the tone master DR is it just sounds "right" to me.

Using that nifty little attenuator, I can get that "spank" that we all dig, with out putting the volume out of reach.

The TMDR does what it does, very well, it's one of my favorite little combos. So easy to move too!

It's possible that Fender will continue to have success with the Tonemasters over the long term and 20 years from now old-timers will tell "walking uphill both ways to school" stories about the days when a TMDR had tubes and no attenuator so couldn't get a decent tone at low volumes. The kids will just roll their eyes.