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  #16  
Old 06-29-2012, 01:04 PM
iim7V7IM7 iim7V7IM7 is offline
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Default Are these effective for Guitar

Has any one ever tried one of these?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ReflexionPS/

I see them used more for vocals than acoustic guitar. Yes, I can turn off the humidifier, but not the computer (tends to ruin your recording)
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  #17  
Old 06-29-2012, 01:40 PM
frankhond frankhond is offline
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Not to mention the laptop fan that always starts up during the quiet, airy section.
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  #18  
Old 06-29-2012, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by iim7v7im7 View Post
Has any one ever tried one of these? http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ReflexionPS/
Sound is emitted 360 degrees from the source, and room reflections arrive back at the mic from all 360 degrees, so there's a limit to how much influence a device like this can have. It won't stop the source sound getting into the room in any appreciable way, as claimed, and it won't really stop the reflections bouncing around the room getting back to the mic. Simply put, they're lying.

However, something of that shape could be useful to tone down a direct reflection off a nearby surface back into the mic. It could also block some off-axis pickup in a cardioid pattern which could be helpful since the off-axis frequency response of a lot of mics isn't great.

The material it's made of will be important. Sound absorbing materials typically need to be high density, such as acoustic mineral wool. That looks like it's made of foam. Naturally they claim it's foam with magical sound-absorbing properties and who knows, maybe they're right.

Last edited by moon; 06-29-2012 at 01:56 PM.
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  #19  
Old 06-29-2012, 02:00 PM
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Bob Womack Bob Womack is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iim7v7im7 View Post
Has any one ever tried one of these?

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ReflexionPS/

I see them used more for vocals than acoustic guitar. Yes, I can turn off the humidifier, but not the computer (tends to ruin your recording)
We actually bought one to test for one of our studios iso booths that had a little problem with reflection returns from the studio window. Sadly, we found that it imparted a funny, "close-to-the-wall," comb filtered sound to vocals when we used it for that so it has mostly languished back in the mic closet.

Bob
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  #20  
Old 06-29-2012, 02:57 PM
iim7V7IM7 iim7V7IM7 is offline
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Sounds as if the reflexion is a no go then...
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  #21  
Old 06-29-2012, 03:11 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Rode NT5 mics can be purchased as a pair for $429. They sound pretty good, they have perhaps a little hyped-up upper mid-range, but even the standard cardioid versions are going to pick up the fan noise from a humidifier. As others have noted, you could turn it off while recording. Regarding fan noise from a computer, you can shield the computer with sound obsorbent panels at least during recording. This is what I do...

The trouble with cardioid mics is that if you place them close to your guitar, the proximity effect will cause a bass boost that will color your sound. To avoid the proximity effect, the mics need to be at least 24" or more away from your guitar. You can buy an omni capsule for the Rode NT5 for $90 each that will avoid the proximity effect but will also pick up other noise in the studio more easily. I have used NT5 with both cardioid and omni capsules in my studio.

The best sound comes from expensive mics. Probably the flatest response mics out there for the guitar are Earthworks QTC30 mics at $1800 for a pair. From your previous comments, I am presuming these are out of your price range.

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  #22  
Old 06-29-2012, 03:52 PM
Fran Guidry Fran Guidry is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iim7v7im7 View Post
Sounds as if the reflexion is a no go then...
It's so frustrating the way physics kicks in when we try things in the real world.

I've had some success with panels of OC503 in burlap, arrayed behind the mic to attenuate off-axis reflections, but I doubt this would do anything useful for ambient noise. For vocals the panels need to be up in the air a bit, there are a couple of vendors who offer mounting systems and panels for vocalists.

Here's a writeup with a link to a video that demonstrates the effect of two panels on an acoustic guitar recording in a small room. http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2011/...oadband-panels

Ethan Winer's Realtraps version: http://www.realtraps.com/p_pvb.htm

GIK Acoustics offers various solutions: http://www.gikacoustics.com/products.html

I would stress that these are useful for localized reflection control, not for reducing ambient noise impact.

Fran
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  #23  
Old 06-29-2012, 04:09 PM
Howard Emerson Howard Emerson is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
We actually bought one to test for one of our studios iso booths that had a little problem with reflection returns from the studio window. Sadly, we found that it imparted a funny, "close-to-the-wall," comb filtered sound to vocals when we used it for that so it has mostly languished back in the mic closet.

Bob
Bob,
But now at least you're ready for the client who comes in and says "I really want my vocals to have that 'close-to-the-wall' sound"

HE
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  #24  
Old 06-29-2012, 08:15 PM
iim7V7IM7 iim7V7IM7 is offline
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Default I think

I think that I will reach out to Michael Jolly and see what mod on a MK012 he recommends for my application. I my price range, I see a number of popular condenser options

ADK AG $249
Rode NT3 $269
AT4041 $299
Shure SM81 $349
Oktava M012 (mod) $399
Sennheiser e914 $400
Beyerdynamic MC930 $560
AKG C 451B $579

Bob
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  #25  
Old 06-29-2012, 09:26 PM
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Front End Audio have the A6 on sale for only $209 at the moment. Other good mics on that list too though. Here's a clip of a pair of modded Mk012's.
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  #26  
Old 06-29-2012, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moon View Post
Here's a clip of a pair of modded Mk012's.
That link leads to a dead link unfortunately. It would be much better to record with two mikes than one.
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  #27  
Old 06-29-2012, 10:05 PM
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Looks like the file was removed by the owner - shame.
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  #28  
Old 06-30-2012, 04:54 AM
iim7V7IM7 iim7V7IM7 is offline
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Default I have heard this

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick-slo View Post
That link leads to a dead link unfortunately. It would be much better to record with two mikes than one.
So I might be better of with two ADK A6s vs. one more expensive condenser?
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  #29  
Old 06-30-2012, 08:32 AM
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IMO the A6 is much better than it's price suggests. It's a shame it isn't a bit more well-known. If you do rule it out, don't do it on price alone.

Here's a sample of a spaced pair and a home-made clip (single A6 on flutes & guitar, recorded separately) to show it's the guitar that's zingy in the first, rather than the mic.

Some kind of stereo technique (spaced pair, XY, etc) is good for solo guitar or sparse mixes. Once you start adding a lot of other tracks into the mix, the subtle sense of space you get with a stereo mic technique tends to get lost.
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  #30  
Old 06-30-2012, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Howard Emerson View Post
Bob,
But now at least you're ready for the client who comes in and says "I really want my vocals to have that 'close-to-the-wall' sound"

HE
Yes, Howard, and that's why it is often hard for me to participate in these "which-mic-is-better-than-which" discussions: quite often, every mic and piece of gear is useful for something. Thirty years ago when I was starting as a recording engineer I read a great little article in Recording Engineer & Producer magazine about mic applications. In it, as an illustration of this, they portrayed a young tyro engineer asking "What is the best mic for acoustic guitar?" The old experience engineer scratches his head, thinks, and then mumbles, "Mmmmm... It depends..." When pushed and given more details, he goes to the mic locker and pulls out a dusty old mic that is considered disreputable in fashion but turns out to do the job perfectly.

That is why we don't throw out stuff very often. A younger engineer at my place recently enthusiastically discovered the virtues of the lowly ElectroVoice RE-15 dynamic condenser for live work. When was the last time anyone enthused about the RE-15? Yet I was happily using it for PA and recording of guitar back in my leaner days in the late 1970s.

And that is why that Reflexion screen is still in one of our mic closets: someone may yet find a perfect use for it. We haven't tried it yet on drums, to screen one drum mic from another, for instance. It might be to bulky, but it's a thought.

Bob
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