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  #46  
Old 04-02-2012, 02:40 PM
mc1 mc1 is offline
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To the OPs original dilema the question for me comes down to your intention. You know you can't play it clean in a recording session. What are you trying to achieve?

Make people think you can. It's bad.
...
only if i tell them. just kidding.

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Present music you have written in the most beautiful way possible? No problem!

To me it's as simple as that. If you are highlighting the music, and not your performance, it's all good. If you were a composer and felt you needed a string section to make your music better you'd bring them in no? So as the composer if you feel you need to drop in a different section? No biggie. It's not a live performance. It's a recorded piece of music.

Read up on how David Gilmour recorded the "Comfortably Numb" solo. Let's just say it involved lots of tracks, a stopwatch, and faders If that's what it takes for music like that to exist, I'll buy him a stopwatch when his breaks.
but since it's solo fingerstyle guitar, the music and the performance are pretty much one and the same. i'll have to think about this.
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  #47  
Old 04-02-2012, 03:25 PM
hansentj hansentj is offline
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I don't think there's any shame in it at all. Heck, lots of live recordings have studio overdubs and tweaks to help polish the rough edges of the performance.
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  #48  
Old 04-02-2012, 04:50 PM
Rick Shepherd Rick Shepherd is offline
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It's shameful.
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  #49  
Old 04-03-2012, 02:15 AM
SteveA SteveA is offline
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Tonight I asked my wife to sing harmony on my latest tune....She sounds really good on certain songs to highlight my VOX.....She has pulled it off live on this new song...

That said, she is not a pro......I knew my window of opportunity was small.....I also know she won't do after take after take, like I wil.......

But I need great BGVs or I won't use em.......

I had her sing all her parts all the way through on 3 separate tracks......"Comped" the three tracks and got one really useable track.....Copied the track and put her in stereo hard left & hard right...

Sounds Great.......Oh, and I dodged a bullet.......Because I would definitely hear it if I didn't use her BGVs on the finished product
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  #50  
Old 04-03-2012, 05:03 AM
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I knew my window of opportunity was small.....I also know she won't do after take after take, like I wil.......
lol...been there as well.
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  #51  
Old 04-03-2012, 08:40 AM
oudface oudface is offline
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great thread........I saw Pierre Bensusan play last year,and I was overjoyed to experience his mastery of the guitar complete with many 'mistakes'........I listen to his Intuite and Vividly albums and they sound so perfectly performed,not a single note off,but with this concert I got to experience his imperfect side and I loved it.........wrong notes,off timing,dead buzzing notes,perhaps even forgotten parts?.........he was clearly improvising throughout the performance and it was rather late once he came onto the stage,but all of these imperfections meant nothing,in fact Im glad I experienced this kind of performance from him,otherwise it would have just been like listening to his perfect recordings.............I would be interested to know how much he pieces together his takes in the studio,because Ive listened quite closely,especially to his last album and it sounds pretty near fluid in one take.
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  #52  
Old 04-03-2012, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveA View Post
Tonight I asked my wife to sing harmony on my latest tune....She sounds really good on certain songs to highlight my VOX.....She has pulled it off live on this new song...

That said, she is not a pro......I knew my window of opportunity was small.....I also know she won't do after take after take, like I will.......
...
this seems like an excellent situation to use multiple takes.

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Originally Posted by oudface View Post
I would be interested to know how much he pieces together his takes in the studio,because Ive listened quite closely,especially to his last album and it sounds pretty near fluid in one take.
i've always thought that seeing a musician live is a good way to really tell how polished they are. pierre gets extra credit for improvising and taking chances. i have a martin taylor clip of him playing live, and improvising all over the place, and he is so good that if he makes a 'mistake', or stumbles a bit, it instantly changes the direction of his improvising and he just follows his mistake. really great.

in the studio, you can have lots of takes, which seems like it makes a big difference. my first take is usually not my best, and playing live is a bit like a bunch of first takes.
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  #53  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:33 AM
chrisOMC15E chrisOMC15E is offline
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I don't think it's cheating to edit the best parts of a performance into a finished piece.
I originally tried to do perfect run throughs when I was recording my album, but had the same problem as you, there was usually just one or two fluff ups that spoiled it.
So I decided to record several takes of the whole piece, staying in the right mood and going through from start to finish, not stopping if I made a little fluff up. Leaving all the tone and level controls alone.
I then went though all the takes and chose the track with the best feel and performance, and used that as the sort of 'root' track. Then replaced any fluff ups on that track with edits from the others.
Sorted.

Just a case of making sure you record all the separate takes in one session and take extra care with the editing to make sure the cross fades are undetectable.

All the tracks on my album have at least one edit in them. I don't think it's noticeable and I don't think it's cheating, it's just being pragmatic
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  #54  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:37 AM
Fichtezc Fichtezc is offline
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I'm glad I came across this thread. I used to be overly proud of having my recordings done in one continuous take. It frequently meant 60 or 70 takes in a row. I would record until the memory on my camera ran out, clear it and then start again. I think after reading this I'll be content with releasing somewhat flawed tracks on youtube but piecing together multiple takes together for my downloads.
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  #55  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisOMC15E View Post
I don't think it's cheating to edit the best parts of a performance into a finished piece.
I originally tried to do perfect run throughs when I was recording my album, but had the same problem as you, there was usually just one or two fluff ups that spoiled it.
So I decided to record several takes of the whole piece, staying in the right mood and going through from start to finish, not stopping if I made a little fluff up. Leaving all the tone and level controls alone.
I then went though all the takes and chose the track with the best feel and performance, and used that as the sort of 'root' track. Then replaced any fluff ups on that track with edits from the others.
Sorted.

Just a case of making sure you record all the separate takes in one session and take extra care with the editing to make sure the cross fades are undetectable.

All the tracks on my album have at least one edit in them. I don't think it's noticeable and I don't think it's cheating, it's just being pragmatic
thanks. that does sound sensible. and really, you are playing all the parts. one could ask if putting a recording of a song from a few years ago, which isn't readily playable anymore, on a cd is cheating.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fichtezc View Post
I'm glad I came across this thread. I used to be overly proud of having my recordings done in one continuous take. It frequently meant 60 or 70 takes in a row. I would record until the memory on my camera ran out, clear it and then start again. I think after reading this I'll be content with releasing somewhat flawed tracks on youtube but piecing together multiple takes together for my downloads.
those 60 or 70 takes must have been very good practice, though, wouldn't you say? i've been running through takes and just trying to be patient about getting a reasonably good one, figuring it's practice. and practice with the little red light on, even at home, seems a little different than with it off.
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  #56  
Old 04-10-2012, 11:50 AM
Fichtezc Fichtezc is offline
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Originally Posted by mc1 View Post

those 60 or 70 takes must have been very good practice, though, wouldn't you say? i've been running through takes and just trying to be patient about getting a reasonably good one, figuring it's practice. and practice with the little red light on, even at home, seems a little different than with it off.
Oh it's great practice. Recording videos for my YouTube channel is still how I polish a song since I won't upload it unless I'm at least satisfied with the quality of performance. Practicing with the light on is definitely different.
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  #57  
Old 04-20-2012, 10:23 PM
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A very interesting, honest and thought provoking thread.
Long live the AGF!
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  #58  
Old 04-29-2012, 07:53 AM
Guitar Hack Guitar Hack is offline
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Default There are no rules!

There are no rules in home recording. Do whatever it takes to get a good recording. The goal is the good recording not the process it took to get there. Who cares if you cut bits and pieces of 20 takes. We've all done it. We've done it because it works.
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  #59  
Old 04-29-2012, 05:47 PM
Smurf Smurf is offline
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Do 3 takes, comp them, and move on to the next tracks.....come back later at it fresh after listening to yours comped take awhile....I say this because when I listen back to one of my comp takes it really inspires me to play it "like the record"....
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  #60  
Old 05-15-2012, 03:26 AM
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Da Sugarbear Da Sugarbear is offline
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Default Take Two (or more!)

In our studio, we will typically do one take all the way through and then see if there are fixes to make. We do this with both the instruments as well as the vocals. There almost always are at least a few and sometime more than a few. If there are way too many edits we go back to square one and do another start to finish take to, at the very least, get fewer fixes. Once in a while I'll listen to the original take and just play along with it while wearing the headphones and my 2nd track will be so much better than the first that we just dump the first and substitute the 2nd effort.
You just gotta do what you gotta do but spending an inordinate amount of time to play a 4:30 piece through flawlessly, in my opinion, at some point, is not the best use of your time.
The beauty of the new recording equipment (I'm 62 and I remember when we used to have bits of tape all over the floor in the editing room) is that you can quite seamlessly do your fixes and they are virtually impossible to detect.
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