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  #16  
Old 12-04-2009, 09:04 AM
pitts8rh pitts8rh is offline
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This is a subject that I have been thinking about for a while, since I seem to run into a surprising number of players that think if it isn't original guitar music, it isn't worthy.

Learning and performing the classics is of great value, whether we are talking about piano, guitar, or anything else.

A well-executed cover performance can display a standard of technical accomplishment that is widely recognized. It can also be very educational to push yourself to learn to play something exactly as the original artist played it. Learning difficult passages note-for-note can make unusual fingerings more accessible, and trying to emulate an artist's sound can force you to explore exactly what makes that sound unique, perhaps forcing you to learn a little something that you never expected along the way.

It adds skill sets that you may or may not use if/when you find your own sound. I have the utmost respect for the type of player that can do a cover and absolutely nail the original artist's sound, and then by choice go off and demonstrate an individual style and musical creativity (the key phrase is "by choice"). But just about as often I will hear a barely recognizable cover that may indeed be an expression of the player's creative playing style, or it could be that what passes for individual style is really the only way they can play it.

Although I'm not proud of this by any means, to be honest I hear a very small percentage of original solo acoustic guitar out there (YouTube or otherwise) that has the hooks to make me listen to the end, much less want to play it. I think many players feel that Windy and Warm, or Jack Fig, or even the dreaded Stairway to Heaven are their standard classics, as much as Nocturne or Pathetique are piano classics to be covered exactly as written.

I wish my original music was not crap, because it would certainly be nice to be able to play something where no one could tell when I effed it up. But fortunately, lacking musical talent and creativity doesn't necessarily stop some of us from being able to play a few things reasonably well. And YouTube represents an outlet and goal beyond just playing to bedroom walls. I like cover music and I actively seek it out, more so than original tunes.
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  #17  
Old 12-04-2009, 09:33 AM
Rax Rax is offline
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I only post originals, but if I had a cover song that I enjoyed performing, you can bet I'd share it. It is a form of self promotion... but I really do enjoy playing the guitar and watching other people play guitar. I learn from everybody, and hopefully somebody's learning a few tricks from me too.
Let's face it... we live in a "look over here", "look what I can do" world. But boy, anything we want to see, hear or learn is just a click away. It is pretty cool.
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  #18  
Old 12-04-2009, 09:50 AM
JoeCharter JoeCharter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Reno View Post
I guess I was tring to ask "why would anyone post themselves playing some standard that has been done a million times without at least trying to add some originality to it?" That is a more acccurate question.
Interesting question.

Even if people all use the same tabs, I find no two performances are the same.

When I watch some of those videos, I most often wonder why someone would tape themselves basically rehearsing a song that's too difficult for them.
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  #19  
Old 12-04-2009, 09:57 AM
Jhengsman Jhengsman is offline
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Originally Posted by JoeNewbie View Post
Interesting question.

Even if people all use the same tabs, I find no two performances are the same.

When I watch some of those videos, I most often wonder why someone would tape themselves basically rehearsing a song that's too difficult for them.
Over on guitarnoise they have a guy posting his progress as he works through the guitar lessons. By playing a cover we all know in a way what can be done to improve on a song so critism can be accepted from just about anybody.
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  #20  
Old 12-04-2009, 10:51 AM
Allman_Fan Allman_Fan is offline
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I realize the OP was about original vs. cover, my comments/questions are "why youtube" in general.

Certainly, I understand the need to be appreciated, but do you get the same satisfaction from reading it typed on the internet as you would receiving it in person? I understand that you get it wherever, whenever, however, you can, but has the internet accessibility to viewing performances actually lowered the demand for real live performances in writers' nights, open mics etc?

Is "youtube" killing the goose that laid the golden egg?

While my questions/comments are related to playing music, they could also be generalized to all human behavior. Are we becoming a people/society that craves social interaction so much, we build machines where we can increase the frequency of our interactions, however, each of the interactions has become less fulfilling. For example, "because of Facebook, I now have 500 friends, none of which I have met in person."
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  #21  
Old 12-04-2009, 11:16 AM
BoB/335 BoB/335 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allman_Fan View Post
I realize the OP was about original vs. cover, my comments/questions are "why youtube" in general.

Certainly, I understand the need to be appreciated, but do you get the same satisfaction from reading it typed on the internet as you would receiving it in person? I understand that you get it wherever, whenever, however, you can, but has the internet accessibility to viewing performances actually lowered the demand for real live performances in writers' nights, open mics etc?

Is "youtube" killing the goose that laid the golden egg?

While my questions/comments are related to playing music, they could also be generalized to all human behavior. Are we becoming a people/society that craves social interaction so much, we build machines where we can increase the frequency of our interactions, however, each of the interactions has become less fulfilling. For example, "because of Facebook, I now have 500 friends, none of which I have met in person."
I don't think it was one of those original vs covers topics. I thought it was more what would make someone even think of doing such a thing. I am new to the world of YouTube. Almost 2 months new. I recently got a great acoustic and wanted to find songs that would suit the acoustic. (I've been an electric player for a long time) I literally STUMBLED on YouTube. i am amazed at the material on there. And grateful. Like what has already been mentioned, I have run across songs that I would never have dreamed of doing acoustically. And different tunings and keys that I would not have otherwise attempted. (Well I still haven't attempted other tunings yet)

I have hopes of putting together a duo for restaurants and I have truly been inspired by many performances I have seen and many ideas of what I would like to do. I get excited everytime I come to the computer to look for something. I have seen 12 year old girls fingerpick so well it makes me sick and then ecourages me to think that even I can do it. Still don't know why anyone would come with a less than adequate performance to be ridiculed by so many mean comments. Also can't understand why so many flakes come out for Americam Idol.

This "play" section is really new for me and I have thoroughly enjoyed seeing so many of the people that are here in their performances. I am truly grateful for YouTube.

BoB
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  #22  
Old 12-04-2009, 11:16 AM
JoeCharter JoeCharter is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allman_Fan View Post
Are we becoming a people/society that craves social interaction so much, we build machines where we can increase the frequency of our interactions, however, each of the interactions has become less fulfilling. For example, "because of Facebook, I now have 500 friends, none of which I have met in person."
I personally don't post on the web but I can understand the people who do. If I could easily film myself with high quality equipment, I would be more tempted.

In general terms, I do agree with the statement above although it doesn't really affect me.

In guitar terms, I personally don't post on the web but I can understand the people who do. If I could easily film myself with high quality equipment, I would be more tempted.

Most of my friends go nuts when I play the intro to Wish You Were Here or some other three chord no brainer. I constantly get requests to play Guns n' Roses and Metallica and other well known riffs.

However, most people tune out if I play more "specialized" instrumental music -- that's when the web becomes interesting as it brings a minority of people together and enables them to discuss about their passion.
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  #23  
Old 12-04-2009, 11:23 AM
BoB/335 BoB/335 is offline
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This is an idea of what I want to do right now for a duo. But I have hopes of being able to do Acoustic Solo Fingerstyle someday.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7P7qB23ZhA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GdRHFDPuGFg&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITXFs8VhHKE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP-g_...eature=related
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  #24  
Old 12-04-2009, 11:34 AM
Christian Reno Christian Reno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allman_Fan View Post
I realize the OP was about original vs. cover, my comments/questions are "why youtube" in general....
Is "youtube" killing the goose that laid the golden egg?....
Are we becoming a people/society that craves social interaction so much, we build machines where we can increase the frequency of our interactions...
Hi AF

These are interesting ideas. We certainly have become a society that craves interaction and the internet has provided an outlet for this. I don't think there is anything wrong with that and I don't get the impression you do either.

I guess I never gave any thought to the possibility that YouTube would cause fewer people to get together and play, or maybe even stop going to see live music. I am not sure what I think about that, but I bet you will get some action on your post.

Best Regards,
Christian
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  #25  
Old 12-04-2009, 11:59 AM
Allman_Fan Allman_Fan is offline
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Nothing wrong with wanting the attention, my point is "quality vs quantity."

Honest question: didn't digital/internet/computer copying capabilites really hurt the music business?

Back in the day, I played music and I lived in Nashville. You couldn't make any money playing in town, you had to take it on the road. Why? Everyone in town was a musician and they could all do what you were doing . . . it wasn't viewed as "special." You'd do a live show in town and 3/4s of the audience were other players standing at the soundboard minimializing your performance in an attempt to pick up chicks. [Of course, I never did THAT. ]

I realize there is a need to advertise, but overexposure (too much supply) can be counterproductive.
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  #26  
Old 12-04-2009, 01:26 PM
Bob1131 Bob1131 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allman_Fan View Post
Nothing wrong with wanting the attention, my point is "quality vs quantity."

Honest question: didn't digital/internet/computer copying capabilites really hurt the music business?

Back in the day, I played music and I lived in Nashville. You couldn't make any money playing in town, you had to take it on the road. Why? Everyone in town was a musician and they could all do what you were doing . . . it wasn't viewed as "special." You'd do a live show in town and 3/4s of the audience were other players standing at the soundboard minimializing your performance in an attempt to pick up chicks. [Of course, I never did THAT. ]

I realize there is a need to advertise, but overexposure (too much supply) can be counterproductive.
Good points, AF, but there is another side to this technology, too. It allows us to collaborate with people around the world, which I would never be able to do without internet technology. From nowhere in Georgia I have played songs with artists in Brazil, Australia, Germany, France, Canada, New York, California and the UK. So, although it may decrease the perceived value of live performances, it has exploded the opportunities to learn from others. BTW - I love to watch those amateur YouTube cover videos because I am drawn into the music more by both sight and sound rather than sound alone. As a guitar player, I am interested in how the performer is playing the song; what chords, riffs, tunings, capo, looper, etc. And yes, I want to see the guitar (brand, model, age, condition)! I have never posted on YouTube, but I am considering it.
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  #27  
Old 12-04-2009, 01:42 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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Yep, video killed the radio star.

I'd much rather watch a performance than just listen to it.

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  #28  
Old 12-04-2009, 01:55 PM
Christian Reno Christian Reno is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Allman_Fan View Post
Honest question: didn't digital/internet/computer copying capabilites really hurt the music business?

Interesting question. Music was being pirated back in the 60's. I certainly took vinyl records and copied them onto 8track and then a bit later onto reel to reel and cassette, so that is not a new concept.

The big record companies have been hurt by tehcnology. I am sure many of us remember the days when the only way to get your music recorded and distributed was through the big record labels. And they had horribly one-sided contracts that eager young musicians were all too happy to sign. Computers and related software has made the recording process much easier for the average Joe to accomplish and anyone can now start up an independant label.

What I fondly remember was when I was starting out in music, there were way fewer people doing it back then. That made for less competition - I loved it!

Now, there are so many great musicians around, it is really hard to stand out,
but that is a subject for another thread...

Regards - Christian
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  #29  
Old 12-04-2009, 02:09 PM
susitna susitna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Christian Reno View Post
Interesting question. Music was being pirated back in the 60's. I certainly took vinyl records and copied them onto 8track and then a bit later onto reel to reel and cassette, so that is not a new concept.
My favorite is that in Russia, they were copying vinyl records onto X-rays and playing those. That's ingenuity!

I haven't watched too many amateur performances on YouTube yet, because I just don't spend that much time on there. But I have found it pretty useful to help me figure out if a particular song can be played on an acoustic guitar and give me some idea of how it might sound. I'm amazed that every time I search for something on there, it comes up with a video.
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  #30  
Old 12-04-2009, 03:11 PM
Allman_Fan Allman_Fan is offline
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I see how it benefits the viewer, not so much how it benefits the one posting the video, though. Like I said, I guess you get "it" wherever you can.

To me, I'd rather have one exceptional open mic performance than a 100Personal Messages. But hey, if everyone is staying home, watching Youtube and no one is going out, then I guess "there goes THAT plan."

Thanks a lot, guys!

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