Pull-offs to open strings

[Cue Zephyr]

Howdy folks,

I was trying to learn Irish rolls on guitar (finally), and noticed I had a great deal of trouble getting clean pull-offs. I wondered if I was just being super-sloppy, but rather than that it seems to be the way I learned them.

I'm a big fan of JustinGUitar, so I use quite some elements of what he teaches. I looked at this video again: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVKAbx3KLXY and realized that 1) I'm doing it right, the way I learned it and 2) this is sufficient for lead playing, but simply doesn't work for the technique that I'm learning. You don't have a finger to lay flat in order to mute the strings you may bump into when executing the pull-off, because with Irish rolls you seem to do a lot of pull-offs to open strings.

I'm currently trying to get clean pull-offs without bumping into other strings.

My question to you - am I doing this right?

Thanks.

CZ

[rick-slo]

Think of the letter J.

[Cue Zephyr]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Think of the letter J.

If that's the shape I should be making with my finger when executing the pull-off, I must be 1) misplacing my fingers or 2) I'm making the movement too big. Either will make me bump into strings in the same fashion as you see in Justin's video.

I'll just keep on practicing.

[MikeVB]

Have you tried muting the adjacent strings?

[Cue Zephyr]

Originally Posted by MikeVB

Have you tried muting the adjacent strings?

I can do it when I pull-off to a fretted note (by laying the fretting finger flatter). Doesn't seem particularly practical to mute with the left hand when pulling off to the open string. I could try it with the right hand, but the right hand may just as well be doing other things. With fingerstyle it's quite possible, kinda like Michael Hedges style right hand muting, but with a pick it seems a bit impractical.

I feel like I'm totally missing the concept! :/

I'm sorry if I'm just being silly, I appreciate the replies.

[Bern]

Justin overemphasizes the pull-off (finger moves too far away from the string) for showing how it's done. Don't think that is done like this all the time. There are strong and light pull-offs which are determined by the feel of the music. It takes a little bit of practice in context of playing a song. Also, practicing pull-offs on a single string going up and down the neck, chromatically and playing a scale, is beneficial as well.
For example, G major scale on the G string pull-off A>G>B>G>C>G>D>G>E>G>F#>G and back doing it IN TIME !

[JanVigne]

I'd say this is another one of those techniques that cannot be described to the benefit of all players. It's also a technique which one day comes to your playing and then stays for the rest of your life. These are the techniques which you simply must practice until that magic day when you perform the pull off, bend, slide, etc cleanly.

Your problems will be somewhat dependent upon the width of your neck and string spacing and gauge plus the size of your fingers. I think you need to first understand Justin is being overly dramatic in his movement for the benefit of the camera. In most cases there shouldn't be the need to pull off to the extent where you are striking other strings. Go slowly and possibly try to roll your fingertip slightly to the side of the string away from your direction of pull off. Then pull in a more upward direction than shown on Justin's video.

Remember, you have three forms of muting you can accomplish when playing with a pick. First, you can pull off and mute adjacent strings with your fretting finger. Study a "rest stroke" as played by classical guitarists to get an idea of this technique and apply it to your fretting hand. You might also see a better explanation of the technique in this video for dobro; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C680-JmwqE You're pulling off and allowing your free finger (or the steel in the case of the resonator) to rest against another string. You can palm mute the strings with your picking hand or you can use your pick to lay (pick block) against unwanted string vibration. These are all fairly advanced techniques to pull off smoothly and at speed. Taking them slowly at first and then speeding up the process should tell you which is best suited to any one situation.

[Cue Zephyr]

Thanks y'all!

So what I get from this, is that muting all the strings I'm not playing is the way to go most of the time.

I know Justin overemphasized the movement, but he does note somewhere in the video that you'll mute the string below it by laying the fretted finger you pull off to flatter on the fretboard.

I have a relatively narrow nut width on my guitar - 1 11/16" or 43mm. My hands aren't particularly large, like I have trouble doing a 5-fret stretch. I use medium gauge strings - that might increase the difficulty a little bit.

[MikeVB]

Originally Posted by Cue Zephyr

Thanks y'all!

So what I get from this, is that muting all the strings I'm not playing is the way to go most of the time.

I know Justin overemphasized the movement, but he does note somewhere in the video that you'll mute the string below it by laying the fretted finger you pull off to flatter on the fretboard.

I have a relatively narrow nut width on my guitar - 1 11/16" or 43mm. My hands aren't particularly large, like I have trouble doing a 5-fret stretch. I use medium gauge strings - that might increase the difficulty a little bit.

Seems hard at first, but it'll come with repetition. One thing that really helped clean up my playing a lot was getting back into playing electric guitars also. If you think you're noisy on an acoustic, try a telecaster!

[frankhond]

I learned it the rest stroke way. Meaning you pull off and land briefly on the string below. This allows for as much snap and force as you like. No need to do anything else to mute or clean up. Once that is ok, you can practice "missing" the lower string. Still the rest stroke gives me what I need most of the times.

To pull off upwards, like Martin Simpson, is still a mystery though.

[RodB]

It's a very subtle movement, if you have to think about muting the next string you have exaggerated the sideways movement. Try reducing this - you may be surprised how much sound you still generate at the pull-off...!

[Bern]

Originally Posted by frankhond

To pull off upwards, like Martin Simpson, is still a mystery though.

Mystery ? It may be just hard for you to do it. Every player has those little 'hard to play' idiosyncrasies. Actually, that's what makes each of us unique.

[HHP]

First, practice rolls very slowly.

Second, realize that when you play the 4-6 sequence at speed, slight imperfections will not be that apparent.

Third, use minimal movement to do the pulls as many sequences will have you hammering the same note later in the sequence.

[Cue Zephyr]

Originally Posted by frankhond

I learned it the rest stroke way. Meaning you pull off and land briefly on the string below. This allows for as much snap and force as you like. No need to do anything else to mute or clean up. Once that is ok, you can practice "missing" the lower string. Still the rest stroke gives me what I need most of the times.

To pull off upwards, like Martin Simpson, is still a mystery though.

Which one is up and down though?

If I'm pulling off down (to the ground) I can mute it with the rest stroke, muting the string (physically) below it.

Pulling off up (to the ceiling), I'd mute with my palm, unless my right hand is playing something. In that case I wouldn't know how to mute.

Originally Posted by RodB

It's a very subtle movement, if you have to think about muting the next string you have exaggerated the sideways movement. Try reducing this - you may be surprised how much sound you still generate at the pull-off...!

I did actually find I could do it without touching any strings, but I wondered if it was absolutely necessary. It does seem like a good thing to learn - clean technique.

Placing the finger a little bit offset also helps with not hitting strings but creating a little more room for the little sideways motion.

Originally Posted by HHP

First, practice rolls very slowly.

Second, realize that when you play the 4-6 sequence at speed, slight imperfections will not be that apparent.

Third, use minimal movement to do the pulls as many sequences will have you hammering the same note later in the sequence.

I do it slowly, especially the one featuring a stretch from fret 5 to 9. OK, that's not a 5-fret stretch, but my hand doesn't easily stretch that far yet. I can make it with a little practice, I'm sure of that.

What do you mean by the 4-6 sequence though?

Minimal movement is a great tip, will also improve my force over a shorter distance when executing hammer-ons.

Thanks everybody.

[JanVigne]

"So what I get from this, is that muting all the strings I'm not playing is the way to go most of the time."




If I'm correctly understanding your question, you're misunderstanding the technique. Muting should be selective, just as any other technique would be. It is the sympathetic harmonic construction of a note which creates the timbre of an instrument and, therefore, the interest we have in the sound of an individual instrument..

If you do not understand sympathetic harmonic construction, it refers to the frequency distribution of a musical signal. Each fundamental frequency is coupled to an infinite series of harmonics. 80Hz will be coupled to higher frequencies each divisible by the fundamental tone. The 80Hz fundamental will have harmonics at 120Hz and the octave of 160Hz then upward at divisions/multiplications of those frequencies. Those are your strongest harmonics which are also coupled to frequencies which exist in between those major harmonic frequencies, these exist as sympathetic resonances created in adjacent strings and the resonating cavity of the guitar. The body of the guitar adds its own sound to the overall mixture of frequencies and what comes out is the timbre of a guitar, a violin, a cello, etc. Timbre allows us to determine whether we are hearing a guitar, a violin or a cello, etc.

Damping all strings when they are not being played would reduce this harmonic grouping to the sound of a single string. Not only would it be far more difficult to determine whether we were hearing a Martin or a Taylor, it would rob the instrument of the greatest part of its flavor. It would also make playing a very difficult experience. In the end you'd have a sound more like an early computerized rendition of a guitar than of the real thing.

Playing well means being selective in the use of various techniques. Using any one of them at all times will rob your playing of interest. Determine which techniques are the most useful for any situation and then practice to make those techniques second nature in that song.