In the market for a new amp and need some help

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by Takzula

There is not a Fender amp ever made above 40w that will not start shaking the foundations of any building above "3"
You'll never get the chance to crank it up at home unless you live on your own many miles from civilization.

This is an attractive part of the Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb and Twin Reverb. Reviews and demos talk about convincing timbre, feel, and classic knob controls set to the regular DR and Twin tube reissues, but with both an "attenuator" to make more use of the range of the volume knob and a completely silent direct recording option. But opened up, they are also capable of being as loud as their tube cousins I think. And super light. I could never gig with my old 4x10 Blues Deluxe (yes, loud). because my old body can't hack that kind of weight anymore.

I'm really enjoying my pre-CBS black panel non-reverb Princeton again lately. I do like it turned up to a level that isn't someone-in-the-next-room quiet, but it's my studio space. I gigged with non-heavy-touch drummers with it back when it was just a low-priced used amp.

[Jimi2]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Working backwards, tube amps and valve amps are the same thing - it's simply a matter of US vs. UK nomenclature for those little glass bottles that make your axe sing like Pavarotti's parakeet...

If you're the kind of player who needs a broad variety of tones and effects at your fingertips - as in a Top 40 club/wedding band, or if you're a studio/hired-gun who needs "that sound" right now - you can't beat a modeling rig, and I worked with just such a player a few years ago who swore by his old Line 6 rack setup; by the same token, if you're a tone connoisseur who bases his sound on subtleties of right-/left-hand technique and the interaction of guitar and amp, IME there's no substitute for tubes. Be advised, however, that unless your particular style requires a lot of clean headroom (jazz, older country, surf, certain blues styles) you may have a hard time keeping a typical tube amp in the "tone zone," as watt-for-watt they tend to be louder than their solid-state equivalents (with a few notable analog exceptions, mostly older SS designs like '80s Peavey and pre-1985 Randall "orange-stripe/grey-stripe" combos); similarly, unless your tube amp has switchable channels and/or some sort of power scaling (FWIW most contemporary mass-market designs do) your range of tones will be relatively limited - until/unless you put in some serious practice time with the likes of a Deluxe Reverb, which to this six-decade player was/is/always will be half the fun and all of the charm of an old-school tube combo...

FYI I'm using a Bugera V22 1x12" as my go-to rig (as I have been for the last ten years), and IME if you need a single tube amp that'll pretty much do it all - clean, crunch, OD, American/British-style tones, home-practice volume, big-hall power (I've played 600-700 seat houses with mine) - you're not going to find anything comparable for anywhere near the price (~$400 if you catch a Coupon/Holiday Sale at your friendly local big-box dealer); you'll need to put in some gym time - this one's built like a tank, both electronically and structurally (they use anchored machine screws throughout - check out a Deluxe Reverb by comparison) - but this is one of those rare pieces of equipment that lends credence to the old saying that inexpensive doesn't necessarily mean cheap, and there are many highly-satisfied owners here on the AGF Electric subforum:



https://www.bugera-amps.com/product....odelCode=P0B03

Steve, you recommended the Bugera to me months ago, and when I saw a nice used one at my local guitar center, I couldn’t pass it up for ~$300. It’s my first tube amp and it’s really sweet - loving the clean tones with my strat and the overdrive with my Eastman semi hollow. I’ve really been missing out all these years! But yeah, it sounds best pretty loud, and since I’m in an apartment I don’t get to crank it as often as I would like. Fortunately my neighbors are not always home, so I do get to turn it up sometimes.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

This is an attractive part of the Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb and Twin Reverb. Reviews and demos talk about convincing timbre, feel, and classic knob controls set to the regular DR and Twin tube reissues, but with both an "attenuator" to make more use of the range of the volume knob and a completely silent direct recording option. But opened up, they are also capable of being as loud as their tube cousins I think. And super light. I could never gig with my old 4x10 Blues Deluxe (yes, loud). because my old body can't hack that kind of weight anymore.

I'm really enjoying my pre-CBS black panel non-reverb Princeton again lately. I do like it turned up to a level that isn't someone-in-the-next-room quiet, but it's my studio space. I gigged with non-heavy-touch drummers with it back when it was just a low-priced used amp.

Frank, I have been considering the Tonemaster series too. One negative comment that keeps popping up intermittently is that the reverb is not very good - very digital in some peoples opinion. This is 2nd hand knowledge though, as I haven't played one.

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Frank, I have been considering the Tonemaster series too. One negative comment that keeps popping up intermittently is that the reverb is not very good - very digital in some peoples opinion. This is 2nd hand knowledge though, as I haven't played one.

Though I mess around with different sounds, I'm not much of spring reverb guy, so I'm not the aficionado to ask about the subtleties of spring reverb I guess. In the web demos I've listened to (subject to all the usual caveats about web demos) I don't notice an issue. Speaking in general digital emulations of the actual spring reverbs can be pretty good in a lot of peoples estimation.

With the Tonemaster amps, Fender is addressing something that I see reflected a lot in guitar forums: that offering options to players causes many (logically or not, human nature is what it is) to reject digital modeling amps as too complex and "for people who want to fool around with settings all the time." By offering one good, classic, and straightforward sound and making it modifiable only by a classic set of knobs these amps may attract a new audience.

The light weight and silent direct recording features intrigue me based on my personal needs. And I just like classic Fender amp sounds.

[roylor4]

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

Though I mess around with different sounds, I'm not much of spring reverb guy, so I'm not the aficionado to ask about the subtleties of spring reverb I guess. In the web demos I've listened to (subject to all the usual caveats about web demos) I don't notice an issue. Speaking in general digital emulations of the actual spring reverbs can be pretty good in a lot of peoples estimation.

With the Tonemaster amps, Fender is addressing something that I see reflected a lot in guitar forums: that offering options to players causes many (logically or not, human nature is what it is) to reject digital modeling amps as too complex and "for people who want to fool around with settings all the time." By offering one good, classic, and straightforward sound and making it modifiable only by a classic set of knobs these amps may attract a new audience.

The light weight and silent direct recording features intrigue me based on my personal needs. And I just like classic Fender amp sounds.

Yeah, I agree that all the videos of these things sound really good and pretty much nail their tube counterparts and Fender cleans cannot be beat (IMO). I also like their simplicity, though I find the price a bit daunting. As a mostly Blues and Classic Rock guy my most needed features are OD/Dist, Tremolo, Reverb and occasionally Chorus.

Other amps I am considering right now include the Quilter Mach 2 (even more $ than the Fender, but more features and lighter) and the Roland Blues Cube. The Cube is more in line with my budget and also has a simple and easy to use layout. Sure do wish it had Tremolo though.

[RoyBoy]

Originally Posted by FoxHound4690

Hey guys,

I'm currently looking at upgrading to a larger and better amp. I've been using a small Laney LX20 for the last couple years, i'm not a gigging musician I really just play for myself, but I feel time as come to upgrade to what I want in terms of a good amp. I'm thinking something along the lines of a boss katana or a fender deluxe reverb. If anyone uses those amps i'd be grateful to hear your thoughts on them.

I'm not really sure what the difference is between tube amps and valve amps and this, that and the other so any clarification you guys could give me on that would also be good. Thanks in advance.

I think Kevwind and Raylor summed thing up pretty well. The advantage of solid state is weight. Since you're a home player that's not going to be an issue. The Katana has effects built in if you don't want to mess with pedals. I never liked the tones I was able to get out of one. There are lots of used ones around cheap.

The Tonemaster is in a whole other arena. I haven't played one, but lots of dyed-in-the-wool tube amp players claim it really nails it. Having built in attenuation is also a plus.

I have a '65 Deluxe Reverb Reissue amp and it is wonderful. If you like blackface Fender cleans, there is no better. Speakers also make a difference too. One last consideration, if you're going to be a home player, I would look into a Princeton Reverb. There are special editions out there that come with 12" speakers and they are sweet amps. I have both. Even out in my shop the Deluxe rarely gets above 3 on the volume dial. It's the Princeton that gets lugged to church and back twice a week.

[rwmct]

Originally Posted by dnf777

Fender Princeton Reverb is a nice personal amp. If volume is an issue (too much) a Z-brake is an option.

Another fan of the PRRI. If I understand the history right, the Princeton was designed to be a personal practice amp, and it seems to me still well suited for that purpose.

[Ray175]

I have played tube amps since 1970. They've included a 1965 Vox AC30 with top boost, an original 1965 Fender Deluxe, and a 2006 hybrid Princeton Recording. All great amps that responded to attack and playing style. In the solid state arena my standby amp since 1986 is a 50w Laney Linebacker combo with 2 mixable/switchable channels and line out that does a fantastic impression of the Princeton blackface sound, both clean and with a responsive break-up; still going strong 34 years later.... I also have a TC Electronics BAM200 head driving a 6.5" Toob speaker - a highly compact configuration that fits in a small carry bag and has a great clean sound which is fine for jazz sessions with my ES-175D - it also takes pedals extremely well.
For the last year my main amp is the ToneMaster Deluxe Reverb, which - to my ears - is indistinguishable from the 1965 Deluxe I had; plus the added benefits of low weight, XLR out with 3 different profiles, a 5 level attenuator with software updates from Fender (the recent ones gave an improved control over the reverb, a "bright" by-pass and other speaker profiles for the XLR out). Quite pricey, but the extras plus the absence of valve maintenance will IMHO make it a good investment.
Tube/valve or solid state? - there is no right answer, so let your ears decide what you like - and don't make your choice based on the poor quality sound in the highly compressed Youtube videos; get out and play the amps with YOUR guitar(s). Have fun choosing!

[scegla]

Originally Posted by dnf777

Fender Princeton Reverb is a nice personal amp. If volume is an issue (too much) a Z-brake is an option. Another nice tube amp for the money is the Supro Tone King series. I got the 1 watt 8” model and it breaks up the 12AX7 tube nicely at bedroom volumes.

I too play at home and wanted a very clean sound of a Fender Blackface. The 65' Princeton Reverb Reissue perfectly fit my needs. Very clean and not SO loud that I can't put a little 'hair' on it with a little more volume. Yes, if you crank it you will still get VERY loud... loud enough to keep up with a drummer if play in a small to medium venue. The thing I really wanted was a clean platform that excepts pedals well. This was perfect for me. Your mileage may vary.

FYI-- You add 'dirt' to a clean amp. It is a little more difficult to make a dirty amp sound clean. :-)

[vld]

For nice living room volume clean sparkling sound the 65' Princeton Reverb Reissue is the perfect choice (since we are discussing this on AGF I do not consider you to be a death metal band lead guitarist ).

But if you want 90% of the fun for 50% of money, try a Fender Blues Junior. Very capable younger brother. And most probably you will get dirtier sound sooner than eviction letter from your landlord

[RoyBoy]

a note to the OP: Fender Blues Juniors are a little over half the price of a Princeton but they are a very different critter. EL 84 tubes, different construction, sound best when up loud. I started out on one and graduated pretty quickly to a Deluxe then a Princeton.

The Princeton Reverb is an immense favorite for good reasons and is American made. It is not an amp you'll likely outgrow.