AGF Luthiers what are you working on currently?

[Brackett Instruments]

Originally Posted by cpabolting

Does anyone outside of Jim Olson basically build most of their guitars with a dovetail neck joint?

I use a dovetail if the client doesn't request a bolt on.


Added, I'm pretty sure Bruce Sexauer uses dovetails, as does Jim Merrill, Wayne Henderson and probably some others.

[Lars Rasmussen]

Originally Posted by Fliss

+1.

Lars, I love the look of that terz! I've been coveting something like that recently, and you're not helping at all

Fliss

Thanks Fliss, if youre ever around Sweden, be shure to drop by and try it out!

[Bruce Sexauer]

I am strictly a dovetail man. The delicate elegance I aim for requires it.

[aphillips]

Haans - that parlor looks amazing and I love seeing your work on here!

[cpabolting]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

I am strictly a dovetail man. The delicate elegance I aim for requires it.

I am a traditionalist...really prefer dovetails

[SGretsch001]

Great looking guitars John

Have fun with that boy as well it will be more rewarding than the guitars.

Originally Posted by JohnM

Lots of various things.

The electric side of me coming out:



LS Redwood/Brazilian L-32




African blackwood MJ-55



Also been working a lot as my Sons T-Ball coach! (way harder than building a guitar by the way)

[D.Kwasnycia]

Originally Posted by cpabolting

Does anyone outside of Jim Olson basically build most of their guitars with a dovetail neck joint?

I use both but find that on cutaways a bolt on is stronger. All around there is nothing wrong with a bolt on if done right and is just as good as a dovetail.

[Bruce Sexauer]

Why would a bolt on be stronger than a dovetail in a cutaway, and not on a conventional guitar? To me bolt ons are like helicopters; they certainly work well unless there is mechanical failure, but they are doing it the hard way, through brute force.

I have never had a dovetail failure in any style of guitar I've made, to my knowledge. Not counting really old guitars with general glue failure, I haven't seen it in others either.

I don't mean this as a challenge to bolt ons, they fine if you like them. Their one advantage is that they are adjustable. Their disadvantage, if you like them, is that they are more likely to need adjustment.

I don't use them because I learned a different way very early. I haven't moved toward them because I cannot bring myself to love helicopters.

[D.Kwasnycia]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

Why would a bolt on be stronger than a dovetail in a cutaway, and not on a conventional guitar? To me bolt ons are like helicopters; they certainly work well unless there is mechanical failure, but they are doing it the hard way, through brute force.

I have never had a dovetail failure in any style of guitar I've made, to my knowledge. Not counting really old guitars with general glue failure, I haven't seen it in others either.

I don't mean this as a challenge to bolt ons, they fine if you like them. Their one advantage is that they are adjustable. Their disadvantage, if you like them, is that they are more likely to need adjustment.

I don't use them because I learned a different way very early. I haven't moved toward them because I cannot bring myself to love helicopters.

Bruce,
I started out only using a dovetail and through the years learned that really there is less contact where the body contacts the neck. If you saw a cutaway of the amount of material that is holding a dovetail and the mating of the cheeks of the neck to the body you may also think about it as will. I never had a dovetail fail ether but with a bolt on I can have more cheek of the neck contacting the body. Different luthiers make there necks different from one another and this may not apply to you, but for me I can adjust how much meat of the neck I want butted up to the guitar. Since my necks are Rosewood and Maple in the center, this makes for a strong joint, but if it were just Mahogany I wouldn't trust it without putting a dowel through the heal of the neck for the insert to bite into. Taylor guitars use an aluminum rod through there heal and then drill and tap into that, there is no way that is going to pull through, unless you strip a thread and there is no reason to turn the screws that tight.

As for why on a cutaway? With the cutaway being so close to the finger board and you machine out for the dove tail, there is little wood left at that point where the dovetail flares out into the body and is a week spot. I had a guitar give way here at one time when the guitar was handled rough and the side split where the dovetail was the widest. So now I find that this is the best way to avoid a mishap from happening. Besides that I still think the contact between the neck and body "can" be better with a bolt on.
Let me know your thoughts on what I said, hope this helps.

[Kent Chasson]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

Why would a bolt on be stronger than a dovetail in a cutaway, and not on a conventional guitar? To me bolt ons are like helicopters; they certainly work well unless there is mechanical failure, but they are doing it the hard way, through brute force.

I have never had a dovetail failure in any style of guitar I've made, to my knowledge. Not counting really old guitars with general glue failure, I haven't seen it in others either.

I don't mean this as a challenge to bolt ons, they fine if you like them. Their one advantage is that they are adjustable. Their disadvantage, if you like them, is that they are more likely to need adjustment.

I don't use them because I learned a different way very early. I haven't moved toward them because I cannot bring myself to love helicopters.

I don't want to turn this great thread into an argument but I have to disagree about bolt-ons.

The only reason for any true "neck joint failure" would be lousy design, lousy execution, or gross negligence on the part of the owner (like extreme heat or storing your guitar in a helicopter that fails).

A well executed neck joint of any style should easily be many times stronger than any stresses it should reasonably see.

The only guitar I've seen with a failure at the neck joint was a Gibson that apparently had one shoulder of the dovetail cut off and re-glued at the factory. And it probably only failed because the guitar got hot enough that all the glue slipped and the whole upper bout collapsed.

And I can't imagine any reason why a bolt-on would be more likely to require a reset either. I don't do a ton of repair work but the only neck resets I've done have been on dovetails. Not the fault of the joint though. Just the usual box distortion.

I have nothing against dovetails. I just think there's plenty of proof that any neck joint should be fine as long as it is well made. And either is problematic if poorly made.

[Bruce Sexauer]

I don't do much repair, and have had to tighten just one bolt on ever, so I don't think there is a epidemic of bolt unscrewing, but it is known that mechanical screws have a way of slowly working themselves out over time and changing stress. Perhaps the rate of stress change in a guitar is too slow for bolt loosening show up before other forms of entropy come into play. But I have seen it once, and I don't do much repair. It was a Taylor, by the way. I will say that in was very easily corrected. . . once I figured out the mechanical function.

I finished this today.

[aphillips]

Great looking slope Bruce - now I can't wait to get mine!

[Haans]

I always use a dovetail. Can't make an old timey guitar without one.

[D.Kwasnycia]

Originally Posted by Kent Chasson

I don't want to turn this great thread into an argument but I have to disagree about bolt-ons.

The only reason for any true "neck joint failure" would be lousy design, lousy execution, or gross negligence on the part of the owner (like extreme heat or storing your guitar in a helicopter that fails).

A well executed neck joint of any style should easily be many times stronger than any stresses it should reasonably see.

The only guitar I've seen with a failure at the neck joint was a Gibson that apparently had one shoulder of the dovetail cut off and re-glued at the factory. And it probably only failed because the guitar got hot enough that all the glue slipped and the whole upper bout collapsed.

And I can't imagine any reason why a bolt-on would be more likely to require a reset either. I don't do a ton of repair work but the only neck resets I've done have been on dovetails. Not the fault of the joint though. Just the usual box distortion.

I have nothing against dovetails. I just think there's plenty of proof that any neck joint should be fine as long as it is well made. And either is problematic if poorly made.

One thing we don't need is a debate for sure on something like this. There are a lot of well made guitars with both, dovetails and also bolts. Like I said in a post earler , I use both and I know there are strong feelings about what is used and tradition, just keep an open mind on this, there really isn't anything wrong with a bolt on and I used to be the same way as you on that thought, "I ONLY USE DOVETAILS" and I was proud of it!

[Kent Chasson]

John's awesome modified FP model prompted me to post my latest experiment. This is a prototype (no finish or binding) of a new edge treatment I'm working on. People have suggested I call it the "Chasson Edge" but I'm worried that sounds like total marketing cheese.

I'll spare you the theory but I was sure happy with the sound. My next build will be the first "real" version and is headed to a fine player in NZ. He's offered to make some recordings when he gets it so I'll be sure to post them.