Eastman and Bourgeois Teaming up!

[Beakybird]

Let the instrument speak for itself.

I don't think anyone buying a $100,000 CFX piano is deterred that Yamaha sells a $3 kazoo.

[Dloz]

Originally Posted by rwmct

That's one way to say it. "Cashing in" would be equally accurate.

They are trading on their brand in the hope of making a lot more money. And cheapening and diminishing it. Now, when you someone says they have a bourgeois, the question will come to mind in the listener: "do you have a real one?"

I say all that as a fan of Eastman and of the better imports. I like the import Guilds a lot. But I still think they cheapen Guild's brand. Anytime a company leaves you qualifying which of their products you have (Not "I have a Guild" but "I have a USA Guild") they are cheapening and diminishing the brand.

Martin did the same thing with their formica bodied guitars and such. You can't tell me most Martin fans don't distinguish their D-18s and D-28s from the formica guitars and think "those are not really Martins."

How dare Dana Bourgeois, a respectable luthier and business person, attempt a business venture to grow his company, increase marketability, and increase profits by "cashing in." I can't think of any other reputable companies that have done this..
Collings- Waterloo
Fender's made in US-Fender's MIM
Martin's made in US-Martin's MIM
Taylor's made in US-Taylor's MIM
Breedlove's made in US-Breedlove's MIM
Gibson-Epiphone.

As I sit here playing my all-solid-wood Martin DSR2, I can actually feel those playing D28's looking down their noses, I mean proverbial guiatar necks at me and saying "those are not real Martins." I'm not sure why that is. Maybe it's the Richlite fingerboard. That can't be though, because it's actual FSC® Certified Richlite®.
On second thought maybe most are similar to me. They like what they like, play what they play, and enjoy other's who play what they play. I really like playing my DSR2. I like playing D28's more so. I also really like the shirt I'm wearing today but that's because I bought it at Nordstrom's and not that cheapened Nordstrom's Rack

[justonwo]

Dana has put in a lot of time as a small-shop luthier over the years and I doubt he has made a fortune in his business. He is one of the preeminent builders of our time. Now he has an opportunity to really cash in on his many year’s of hard-earned expertise, which is exactly what I’d hope to do if I were in his situation.

I imagine the resulting guitars will be quite nice. A guy like Dana Bourgeois isn’t going to sully his reputation. This seems like a well-considered and thoughtful next move. I wish him the best of luck. I’m sure it’ll be successful.

[pdidmh1]

Eastman makes great instruments. Solid company. I have a feeling the affordable guitars will still be north of $1000 though. I will wait and see.

[Michael Watts]

My friend Howard Feng shares some perceptive and fascinating views on the subject of Chinese guitar making here

[Silly Moustache]

I'd like to add my perspective on this too.

Many (most) of the larger brands have developed a "budget" side.
Gibson did this way back with Kalamazoo, and Harmony made truckloads of guitars for other "brands".


Martin was relatively late to the strategy but seem to be trying to cover the entire market, but choose to use their own "brand" on all.Some may think that it cheapens the brand, some don't - They started (I think) with the Sigma brand, then the Shenandoah subset, now the "road" "X", and "PA" series and you will know if you are playing a budget line or a "real" Martin by the price you paid, and/or the sound.

I believe that Larrivee and Taylor sell their budget lines as the original brand as well.

Gibson uses "Epiphone", etc.

Collings now has three levels - the "traditional" (essentially an answer to Martins "Authentic" line, their standard, and the Waterloo line 9which is a .. a bit cheaper but not clones of the standard series.

For the past 20-30 (?) years the best budget side of the market has been produced in the far-east.

Basically, the labour resource is there (if you are one in a million in China - that means there are 1400 of you!) and the labour is cheaper.

Eastman came into the market after many years making perfectly good violin family products and initially made archtop guitars before branching out to flat-tops then electrics.

They don't ..yet.. make guitars to a Collings/Bourgeois/Martin Authentic level, but the important word is ...yet.

I'm convinced that the guitar market is shrinking as the baby boomer generation ages. Everyone is trying to cover all their bases.

[robey]

The only thing that cheapens a brand is making substandard product.

[wguitar]

Best of luck to Dana whom I've never met but, by all accounts, is one of the premier (and legendary) guitar makers of our time! I have had the opportunity to play some of his guitars at a local shop and would LOVE to own one someday. But for the cost I would own an OM today!

Regarding the news it is simply a matter of supply and demand, and a hardworking man looking out for the his financial future. IMHO it's as simple as that.

In this age of Dollar Stores consumers are generally more interested in value vs. quality, which puts great pressure on Dana's high-end business model. Fact is, the high-end guitar niche market is shrinking as those who appreciate it are aging up and even selling their own collections for health, financial, and/or other reasons. Just look at the many of these guitar for sale right here on AGF -- some for a long time. It's hard to sell quality, high-price guitars today because consumers have changed (and will continue to do so).

The time they are a-changin' !

Best of luck to Dana!

[warfrat73]

This isn't even the first time that Bourgeois has made a move into the "affordable" market. The short lived (and, I believe, briefly revived) artisan series that popped up in 1999.

I have a had my DR-A for 20 years now, and more than once had to defend it as a "real" Bourgeois because of the EIR bridge, and fingerboard, and the decal instead of inlay, and the plastic fretboard markers; though it was made in Maine. Make no mistake, it's a wonderful guitar (which is why it's still my keeper), but certainly not what people think of when they think Bourgeois.

So, this isn't exactly brand new territory, even if it is a bit different this time.

[warfrat73]

It actually reminds me a bit of the Laurel model guitars that Kent Everett did for a while. The were built in Japan and then Kent did the final setup and tuning in Georgia. Those were great guitars, I played a couple and nearly bought one. As I recall, though, the main reason I didn't buy it was because I was a bit dubious about the whole made in Japan thing... so maybe there is something to this "authenticity" issue.

[pagedr]

Originally Posted by rwmct

That's one way to say it. "Cashing in" would be equally accurate.

They are trading on their brand in the hope of making a lot more money. And cheapening and diminishing it. Now, when you someone says they have a bourgeois, the question will come to mind in the listener: "do you have a real one?"

I say all that as a fan of Eastman and of the better imports. I like the import Guilds a lot. But I still think they cheapen Guild's brand. Anytime a company leaves you qualifying which of their products you have (Not "I have a Guild" but "I have a USA Guild") they are cheapening and diminishing the brand.

Martin did the same thing with their formica bodied guitars and such. You can't tell me most Martin fans don't distinguish their D-18s and D-28s from the formica guitars and think "those are not really Martins."

This is ridiculous. No kidding they're trying to make more money, that's what businesses do. It doesn't cheapen or diminish the brand, and if you're seriously worried about how others perceive your guitars instead of how they sound/feel/play to you, then that's kinda sad.

A more likely scenario, if someone were to ask what kind of guitar you have and you said "Bourgeois", is that you'd get a blank stare. Bourgeois is obviously very big in circles like the AGF and with some serious players but I'd be willing to bet that at least 90% of musicians have never even heard of the brand.

[Tnfiddler]

Originally Posted by pagedr

This is ridiculous. No kidding they're trying to make more money, that's what businesses do. It doesn't cheapen or diminish the brand, and if you're seriously worried about how others perceive your guitars instead of how they sound/feel/play to you, then that's kinda sad.

A more likely scenario, if someone were to ask what kind of guitar you have and you said "Bourgeois", is that you'd get a blank stare. Bourgeois is obviously very big in circles like the AGF and with some serious players but I'd be willing to bet that at least 90% of musicians have never even heard of the brand.

Happens to me often! Had one guy at SPBGMA ask me how I liked my Blueridge and I had to tell him I've never owned one and that it was a Bourgeois! I then got the blank stare!

[dwasifar]

Originally Posted by nickv6

Eastman are making some really great instruments so it looks like a good partnership move to me.
I had a Bourgeois guitar and it was fabulous, so I imagine their input added to Eastman manufacturing would result in an excellent product at a good price.
Nick

I hope Bourgeois takes aggressive steps to protect their patents and designs. Letting China use your designs is dangerous. IP protection there is not what it is here, and favors Chinese companies over foreign companies in disputes.

Back in the 90s, Schwinn brought in two Chinese manufacturers to build bikes for them. The Chinese companies took the Schwinn technology and designs and went into business for themselves, driving Schwinn into bankruptcy. Wouldn't want to see that happen to Bourgeois.

[justonwo]

Originally Posted by rwmct

That's one way to say it. "Cashing in" would be equally accurate.

They are trading on their brand in the hope of making a lot more money. And cheapening and diminishing it. Now, when you someone says they have a bourgeois, the question will come to mind in the listener: "do you have a real one?"

I say all that as a fan of Eastman and of the better imports. I like the import Guilds a lot. But I still think they cheapen Guild's brand. Anytime a company leaves you qualifying which of their products you have (Not "I have a Guild" but "I have a USA Guild") they are cheapening and diminishing the brand.

Martin did the same thing with their formica bodied guitars and such. You can't tell me most Martin fans don't distinguish their D-18s and D-28s from the formica guitars and think "those are not really Martins."

Cashing in. Absolutely. I don't know if you've ever built a business. Perhaps you have. It can be gut wrenching. When the opportunity comes along to "cash in" on the fruits of your labor, you take it. I disagree it will cheapen his house brand. I haven't seen that happen in any of the analogous business setups (Collings/Waterloo, etc).

[dwasifar]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

I'm convinced that the guitar market is shrinking as the baby boomer generation ages. Everyone is trying to cover all their bases.

One would think so, but Martin and Taylor are both shipping guitars in record numbers. Surely that can't be completely at the expense of smaller builders. If the market is shrinking, where are all those guitars going?