New MARTIN went BOOM off the UPS Truck 12/6 Update

[ManyMartinMan]

It sounds as if there's no guitar damage, just case damage. If that's the situation they'll probably just replace the case. There's no reason to involve the guitar if it's not damaged.

[Vancebo]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

You could do worse. Apologies for the US measurements.

GREAT BEANS

1 lb. beans. Pinto, black, peruano.
2 baseball-size brown onions, large dice (approx 1/2" X 1/2")
10 cloves garlic, coarsely chopped.
1 Tb. salt. Start with 2 teaspoons.
Ground black pepper.
10 bay leaves.
A gallon of water.
Oil.

Start the water boiling in a separate pot.
Start some oil heating in the bottom of a large, heavy dutch oven or the like.
Rinse the beans in a colander and pick out whatever's in there that isn't beans.
When the oil's hot, throw in the onions and garlic. Stir.
Crank in some black pepper. Don't skimp.
Keep stirring until it looks and feels like apple pie filling. This will take quite a while.
Throw in the beans and carefully add enough boiling water to immerse the whole business.
Add the bay leaves and 2 tsp. of the salt.
Bring the heat down to the lowest that will still maintain a gentle boil, adding water when it needs it. Leave uncovered or not entirely covered.
A couple hours in, taste the liquid (not a bean) to see if you need more salt.

Depending on which kind of beans you use and how old they were when you bought them, figure on at least 4-5 hours. Black beans can take 10.

This is also a split pea soup recipe, but with more water (duh), and no bay leaves.

And although the title is just "Great Beans," they also happen to be great vegan beans. But that's only a selling point with certain people.

Okay, this made me smile.

[Vancebo]

Originally Posted by ManyMartinMan

It sounds as if there's no guitar damage, just case damage. If that's the situation they'll probably just replace the case. There's no reason to involve the guitar if it's not damaged.

Except he can't sell it as new. It's a loss since it's value just tanked.

[AZLiberty]

Originally Posted by Vancebo

Except he can't sell it as new. It's a loss since it's value just tanked.

How so? Martin cases are not serial number matched to the guitar.

Ted shipped the OP a guitar for a trial.
OP shipped it back.
UPS damaged the package in shipping, but it appears (pending Ted's Luthier's Inspection) that the case did it's job.

If it's not actually damaged, the guitar is still new.

[ManyMartinMan]

Yeah. That would be a big fat bingo.

[Vancebo]

Originally Posted by AZLiberty

How so? Martin cases are not serial number matched to the guitar.

Ted shipped the OP a guitar for a trial.
OP shipped it back.
UPS damaged the package in shipping, but it appears (pending Ted's Luthier's Inspection) that the case did it's job.

If it's not actually damaged, the guitar is still new.

Ted couldn’t sell that as new. And I get his point. How much is someone willing to pay for that guitar when he disclosed that it survived some sort of fall that damaged the case but cleared an inspection from a luthier. (Assuming it would). There is a price for everything.

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by Vancebo

Ted couldn’t sell that as new. And I get his point. How much is someone willing to pay for that guitar when he disclosed that it survived some sort of fall that damaged the case but cleared an inspection from a luthier. (Assuming it would). There is a price for everything.

He might not be able to sell sell it as new, nor should he. But he could still sell it and not take a hit, meaning he could still sell it above dealer cost. Regardless I hope neither of you have to take a hit

[ChrisN]

I think guitar buyers would be surprised to learn how many of the "new" guitars they've purchased were returns by previous try-before-you-buyers. These guitars are sold as "new" so long as they have no visible defects, as ownership hasn't changed hands, and the factory will honor the warranty.

I've seen multiple instances where someone will order 3-4 of the same model in order to pick the "best" one and send the rest back after being played. If dealers had to sell those at a discount because they were "used," that practice wouldn't be allowed. When you test drive a new car but decide you don't want it, it doesn't get moved over the "used cars" lot.

I bought a new Taylor from a high end dealer. Dealer said case had a few minor issues, they got another case from Taylor and shipped my new Taylor to me in its newer Taylor case - all as "new." I didn't mind a bit.

[Vancebo]

UPDATE: UPS denied my claim saying that the packaging wasn’t up to their standards. In the voicemail I received, it was mentioned that the guitar would be back on its way to me. Yesterday, I got home and found it on my front porch, guess what, in its original packaging! The same packaging that they claimed was not up to their standard. I pulled the guitar out and it looked to be in perfect shape. The case has a 10” crack in the edge of the lid along the lower bought. The case did its job for sure.

I made a phone call and began the next level of dispute. I expect to receive a phone call today from a live person. They also charged my credit card for $79 for the shipping. Hmm? I get it. I will ride this out and see where it goes.

[jaymarsch]

Originally Posted by Vancebo

UPDATE: UPS denied my claim saying that the packaging wasn’t up to their standards. In the voicemail I received, it was mentioned that the guitar would be back on its way to me. Yesterday, I got home and found it on my front porch, guess what, in its original packaging! The same packaging that they claimed was not up to their standard. I pulled the guitar out and it looked to be in perfect shape. The case has a 10” crack in the edge of the lid along the lower bought. The case did its job for sure.

I made a phone call and began the next level of dispute. I expect to receive a phone call today from a live person. They also charged my credit card for $79 for the shipping. Hmm? I get it. I will ride this out and see where it goes.

I am not surprised by this but glad that you are following up with the next level of dispute. Continue to keep us posted and good luck on getting a good outcome.

Best,
Jayne

[RP]

Originally Posted by jaymarsch

I am not surprised by this but glad that you are following up with the next level of dispute. Continue to keep us posted and good luck on getting a good outcome.

Best,
Jayne

I've got to agree with Jayne. Like others have said, I've received numerous guitars that would seem to be inadequately packed by UPS standards but nevertheless arrived at my home unscathed. Unfortunately, I don't believe that common practice negates what UPS states as minimum packaging standards. Stay after them...

According to UPS:
Prepare your instrument for shipping
When you’re shipping a guitar, there are three elements that you need to consider: the instrument, the case and the box. First, let’s look at some of the ways you can protect the instrument itself.

Secure the instrument’s moveable parts. Begin by removing all the unnecessary parts, like the slide, capo and whammy bar. Basically, anything that doesn’t need to be in the case should go. This will help prevent scratches during transit, where loose objects have the potential to do serious damage.

Loosen the strings. You don’t have to remove the strings entirely—although if you’re shipping a guitar without a protective case you probably should—but detuning them a little will relieve some of the pressure from the headstock and reduce the risk of the strings snapping in transit.

Wrap the headstock. Covering the headstock with bubble wrap is an effective way of protecting the tuners from the case. You should also place a rubber band around the bubble wrap to keep it from coming loose while the guitar is in transit.

Place padding between the strings and the fretboard. By sliding a towel or a strip of folded newspaper between the frets and the strings, you can help keep them from smashing into each other during shipment.

Pack your guitar in an appropriate case
The right case is just as important as the internal packaging. When shipping a guitar, it’s always a good idea to pack the guitar inside its case, as this provides an extra layer of protection for the instrument.

Choose the right sort of case. Place your guitar in a hard, protective case, not a gig bag. While a gig bag can defend your instrument from some minor scratches when you tote it around, it doesn’t offer the same level of protection as a hard case during the more rigorous movements of shipping.

Fill in the holes around the guitar. Once you’ve packed your guitar in the case, there will naturally be a bit of empty space. You’ll want to reduce the chances of your instrument moving around inside the case during shipping by using cushioning material like bubble wrap or air cushioning to fill the gaps. It’s also important to pay attention to supporting the neck of the guitar, which can be easily damaged.

Do a “shake test.” Now that you’ve filled in all the empty gaps within the case, it’s time for a shake test. Gently shake the case, and if you hear any movement, you’ll know that you could still add a little more filling.

Choose the right outer packaging for your guitar
Finally, it’s important that you get the outer packaging—the box—right, as this is the first barrier against damage when shipping a guitar.

Choose a sturdy box. Make sure that you’re using the best outer packaging materials available for your instrument. If we assume that a guitar and case weigh around 12 lbs., the UPS® Packaging Advisor recommends shipping in a 200# or 250# burst strength box.

Fill the empty space. Just like you did for the case, you’ll need to fill in all the empty space within the box. Use at least two inches of inflatable air cushioning or bubble wrap as void fill, and ensure that the guitar case fits snugly within the box.

Do the final “shake test.” After you’ve sorted everything else out, it’s time for another “shake test”. Once again, if you hear the case moving around within the box, you need to go back and fill the gaps—foam planks are a good option for this. If you want to be extra cautious, you could even double-box your guitar case.

Seal the box with tape. After you’re satisfied that the case is secure within the box, it’s time to secure the box with packaging tape. Remember, it’s important not to use duct tape, masking tape or any other kind of tape.

[brencat]

Originally Posted by Vancebo

UPDATE: UPS denied my claim saying that the packaging wasn’t up to their standards. In the voicemail I received, it was mentioned that the guitar would be back on its way to me. Yesterday, I got home and found it on my front porch, guess what, in its original packaging! The same packaging that they claimed was not up to their standard. I pulled the guitar out and it looked to be in perfect shape. The case has a 10” crack in the edge of the lid along the lower bought. The case did its job for sure.

I made a phone call and began the next level of dispute. I expect to receive a phone call today from a live person. They also charged my credit card for $79 for the shipping. Hmm? I get it. I will ride this out and see where it goes.

They denied your claim. I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you! /sarc

At this point, since the guitar is thankfully in perfect condition, I would pursue getting reimbursed for the cost of a new Geib case and move on with your life. Do not let that guitar be shipped again somewhere in that damaged case.

Do you at least like the tone of the guitar ?

[amsmarle]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

You stated it went "boom? off the UPS truck". If they dropped it or mis-handled it, you should be reimbursed up to the amount you insured it for. In the many, many guitars I've shipped, I've only had one damaged. They put a fork-lift fork through it. Obviously no matter how it was packaged, it would have been damaged. They paid quickly. Another great reason to have private insurance. With an all-inclusive policy on all your instruments this would be covered without question.

In the UK couriers will not insure guitars for damage, they will only insure for loss. With any courier as you input info and come to the box where it asks what the parcel is - if you put guitar up comes the warning see attached waiver notice on UK Parcel-force courier application form

Alan

[IMG][/IMG]

[Vancebo]

Originally Posted by brencat

They denied your claim. I'm shocked, SHOCKED, I tell you! /sarc

At this point, since the guitar is thankfully in perfect condition, I would pursue getting reimbursed for the cost of a new Geib case and move on with your life. Do not let that guitar be shipped again somewhere in that damaged case.

Do you at least like the tone of the guitar ?

The guitar would be the best sounding guitar in most music shops. The problem is I have a great sounding dread in my Collings D2 traditional. It can do it all. They sound different but it wasn’t something I needed.

[brencat]

Originally Posted by Vancebo

The guitar would be the best sounding guitar in most music shops. The problem is I have a great sounding dread in my Collings D2 traditional. It can do it all. They sound different but it wasn’t something I needed.

Was it your intent to keep the Martin and sell the D2HT if you liked it better ? I'm just confused by your last sentence about it not being something you needed.