New MARTIN went BOOM off the UPS Truck 12/6 Update

[Silly Moustache]

I hope matters are settled as appropriate.
I've always thought that there was something weird about sending a shipment via a carrier, then paying them more NOT to damage it. I always thought that it should be intrinsic in the cost.

However, here in the UK, last time I looked for a suitable carrier, I found that no carriers - now accept insurance liability for certain things - including musical instruments.

[MChild62]

Originally Posted by DenverSteve

In the many, many guitars I've shipped, I've only had one damaged. They put a fork-lift fork through it.

Uhm...pics to share?

Asking for a friend.

[RP]

Originally Posted by Vancebo

...I shipped it the same container and packaging that it came from in the Martin factory to LA Guitar Sales and to my home...

Originally Posted by seannx

That is solid proof that it was adequately packed, and any damage could only have been caused by extreme negligence and mistreatment....

Don't mean to be the voice of pessimism, but I can't agree. Running back and forth across a busy intersection without getting hit by a car doesn't mean it's safe to do. Using the same packaging for an item that didn't get damaged is not the same thing as providing packaging that conforms to UPS guidelines. Evidence of negligence by UPS personnel such as dropping the package off the back of a truck is obviously a whole other thing...

[lt20dbl]

As a matter of interest, I received a brand new Martin Authentic from a sponsoring dealer of this site. They just put the cased guitar in a box and shipped it. It arrived okay but I was surprised at what to me, seemed a lack of caution. I bought another Authentic two years later from L.A. Guitars (not the same dealer). This time, the box was packed full of styro peanuts. Did they do this with your guitar?

[Quickstep192]

It seems to me that if UPS declares the packaging inadequate, It becomes a thing between UPS and LA Guitars since LA Guitars provided the packaging. LA guitars probably knows how to deal with UPS.

I think we’re all eager to see how this turns out.

[RP]

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

It seems to me that if UPS declares the packaging inadequate, It becomes a thing between UPS and LA Guitars since LA Guitars provided the packaging...

The dealer would have been responsible for the packaging until it reached the buyer. It seems the buyer would be responsible for the packaging when he returned the guitar to the dealer...

[TaylorCocobolo]

US postal service does a good job shipping insured guitars and are typically cheaper than UPS and fedex.

[Parlorman]

The top failed on my early 70’s Martin D-28 (long story). I’m the original owner so it was under warranty. My local luthier and authorized Martin repair person shipped the guitar back to Martin via UPS. When it arrived, Martin called him to ask how the neck was broken. He told them it wasn’t. The shipping carton didn’t have much obvious damage so UPS denied the claim. Martin insisted and UPS paid up.

I don’t know how things would have turned out if I had shipped the guitar myself instead of a Martin shop - or if Martin themselves hadn’t been involved. I’m sure they carry lots of weight with the shipping companies.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by TJNies

I asked "OOPS" about the idea that Martin ships with their normal top and bottom supports, and was told that is not considered "sufficient packaging"...

Humorous.

So now I add foam panels front and back, plus foam supports near the top of the neck, and newspaper filling throughout in additional to the Martin cardboard, to ensure the UPS gorillas (and I worked in packing trucks there some years back and know how absolutely nothing is treated carefully) have less of a chance of breaking fragile items.

Actually, I never ship via UPS anymore. FedEx all the way.

But I hope you have a successful outcome!

I have read the fine print details on the UPS website and noticed that they state that any package containing "newspaper" will be considered insufficient packaging. That was a few years ago, so possibly that's changed.

[Arthur Slowhand]

Originally Posted by Vancebo

Given the details, what do you think will be the result?

If you paid extra for insurance you should be fine. UPS's insurance will be underwritten by their own insurer, so they won't lose out either. You make a claim against UPS and get paid, they make a claim on their policy and get paid too. This is all conditional, of course, on you having complied with UPS's shipping requirements.

[mercy]

I thought that UPS didnt have insurance to buy. If you read their packaging requirements it doesnt seem to me your packing matches up.

[jaymarsch]

My experience with both UPS and FedEx is it really is on a case by case basis. It is a well researched fact in the insurance industry that they save a lot of money on denying a first claim because they know that a percentage of people will accept that answer and not pursue it any further. The people that are persistent on not accepting no generally get the money but it takes time and patience.

But it has become standard procedure for shipping companies to simply claim that the packaging was inadequate. I always insure my shipped guitars through my musical instrument insurance so it is clear what the process will be and I know that I will be reimbursed for any loss, damage and/or repair.

I hope that it works out well for you! Ted should be a good ally as he is a reputable dealer with experience in dealing with shipping guitars.

Best,
Jayne

[JERZEY]

Firstly if you read the packing rules you will find that almost nobody follows the packing rules. When I see how these guitars get shipped around It makes me LOL. I have yet to see a single one packed correctly and per the shippers rules.

In my experience UPS will send out an inspector. He will take some pictures and record the claim. If you broke any of the rules they will deny your claim unless you shipped it on a high volume commercial account.

In the future if you want to ship something valuable the rules are:

-NEVER EVER USE UPS
-Use Fedex and double insure the value.
-Actually read and follow the shipping rules.

Nobody uses UPS to ship important stuff commercially that should tell you everything you want to know. Businesses almost always use Fedex when it counts.

[Vancebo]

Originally Posted by Arthur Slowhand

If you paid extra for insurance you should be fine. UPS's insurance will be underwritten by their own insurer, so they won't lose out either. You make a claim against UPS and get paid, they make a claim on their policy and get paid too. This is all conditional, of course, on you having complied with UPS's shipping requirements.

I hope this is true. Of course in reality, I never checked with UPS’s shipping requirements. I made the assumption that Martin and LA Guitar complied and I used the same packaging so why wouldn’t it be up to UPS standards? Thats at least my thinking. I am actually avoiding looking up their shipping requirements because of what I find there.

[CoffeeFan]

If I'm shipping a guitar via UPS I'll take it to the UPS store and let them pack it. That way, if it's inadequate packaging, the fault undeniably lies with UPS...