Bluegrass G

[Italuke]

Originally Posted by stanron

I agree with that but how about this as a point? As a non classical guitar player advances, perhaps over many years, the perception of the instrument can change from one voice to two or perhaps three voices. Those three voices are bass, chords and melody. When that change in perception occurs that low B belongs in the bass voice rather than in the chords or melody. It's a generalisation I know and there will be exceptions.

Hmm, I hear ya but that's not how most (common practice) classical music is composed. You rarely see 3rds prominent in the lower registers of, as noted above, piano scores. Just look at the left hand parts in all those books getting dusty on your grandmother's piano. There's an acoustically based reason for not emphasizing the third in lower registers. (UNLESS it's the lowest, bass note, then you're GOING for a 6/3 inversion, by choice.)

[stanron]

You've never used the 3rd in the bass to lead from chord I to chord IV, or the 3rd in chord V to lead back to chord I ? It's almost illegal not to.

[rllink]

Holy cow, I never imagined this thread was going to go this deep. Because it is my thread I felt obligated to read them all. I'm glad it generated such a rousing discussion but think sometimes it is just better not thinking about it that much. Carry on though if you like. I started drowning after the second page. I'm going back up for air.

[stanron]

Hi rllink You're right. I was getting off topic there. Sorry about that. In answer to your original post, it's already been said that using

3 2 0 0 3 3

gets rid of the 'weakest' note in the chord. This makes the chord sound 'stronger'.

There's one extra point. The most 'bluesy' note you can play is 3 frets above the root, bent a bit. In G this note is Bb bent almost to B. If the B is playing at the same time it can clash. This shape removes that B and so leaves 'space' for someone to play that blusey note clearly. Hope this makes it clearer.

Stan.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by rllink

Thank you for the tips. I will give those a try. I learned that G chord just like the one you are illustrating at a workshop last fall. But over the winter my pinky has pushed my rig finger out and bars those two strings there at the third fret. I don't know if the this going to come back to bite me later on and perhaps I should get back to doing it like you are with four fingers. I've also taken to muting that B on the A string with my index ginger like people have talked about, 3x0033, so essentially I've turned it into a two finger chord. Again, it is something I've slid into playing a lot of songs in the keys of G and C over the winter, not something I've learned. So I hope I'm not slipping into a bad habit.

Also I've taken to throwing the extra finger up on the G when I'm playing a C so that I don't have to walk a finger back and forth when I'm playing. Again, I don't know if that is going to come back on me later, because that one has become pretty engrained into my muscle memory as well. If so, my salvation is that I can break bad habits pretty quickly

Hey rllink

There are not any 'official' versions of these, more common knowledge and people learning what we saw someone else doing.

I'm always visually twisted a bit when I see James Taylor play unconventional chord fingerings, but he always sounds great.

I've had students who did things unconventionally without it affecting how they played songs, passages etc. or learned new techniques. Sometimes I just taught them an alternate way, and by using both they made the choice to play the most efficient technique.

I'm very inventive, but when I see others doing it better, I usually learn the 'better' way without forgetting the original way. I can still play a one-finger-A major chord on the second fret.

But as a fingerstyler I learned a three finger version that serves me better…so it's most often used.

[Italuke]

Originally Posted by stanron

You've never used the 3rd in the bass to lead from chord I to chord IV, or the 3rd in chord V to lead back to chord I ? It's almost illegal not to.

Not what I said. Of course, you mean when the third of the chord IS the bass note, the lowest sounding note. That's done all the time in music, as you note leading into the four chord, etc.

I'm talking about sounding the root and third SIMULTANEOUSLY in the lower register of a voicing. Mud. For acoustic reasons.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

Being a flatpicker/fingerpicker I finger the same chords differently depending on where I came from and where I am going. Often, I only use partial chords and double stops. And then there is the sound consideration as to what may work best in the situation. Like playing a passing F chord. Why? Just use a note, partial chord or double stop. Music is fluid so let it flow.

Yes, this exactly!

There are at least three ways to play a 1st position 6 string G.

Bearing in mind that all you need for a G major anywhere is a G, B (3rd) and D (5th) - you only need three notes but you have six strings.

Thinking 1st position, and going from bass to treble, there is
320003 GBDgbd.
Or
320033 GBDgdg

or 3x0003 Gxdgbg

Etc. all are G major chord.

If I'm playing in C I'll often use this for a brief V chord

3x000x GxDgbx (usually only for on bar).

As Mr Jelly says, depends where you are going to or coming from.

[Italuke]

Risky I know, to resurrect this one, but can anyone recall a reference where someone, a prominent player I believe, was at some point accused of playing the "girls G chord" as opposed to, I assume the "bluegrass" G? Can't find it and am curious about that...

[Kyle215]

I’m a bit late to all this, but I also think 3x0033 sounds “grassiest”. That said, I’ve been working though Bryan Sutton’s ArtistWorks course and he’s now got me doing 3x0003 in certain circumstances, especially fiddle tunes when you’re flying back and forth from C to G quickly (as in Blackberry Blossom, for example).

I never use that low B note in a bluegrass G (except for doing runs).

[phydaux]

When I was taking face-to-face lessons a while back, I noticed my teacher was fingering a G with his pinky & ring on the 1 & 2 strings on the 3rd fret, and this middle finger fretting the 6th string at the 3rd fret, with his middle finger also muting the 5th string.

I asked him "Oh, that's how you finger a G chord?" He looked at me intently and said "That's how ALL OF US finger the G chord."

[Italuke]

Originally Posted by phydaux

When I was taking face-to-face lessons a while back, I noticed my teacher was fingering a G with his pinky & ring on the 1 & 2 strings on the 3rd fret, and this middle finger fretting the 6th string at the 3rd fret, with his middle finger also muting the 5th string.

I asked him "Oh, that's how you finger a G chord?" He looked at me intently and said "That's how ALL OF US finger the G chord."

Ha! Of course, then no one is playing a G chord, as the 3rd is missing!

I'm still wondering who called 320003 or 3x0003 the "girl" G chord...

[jwing]

Originally Posted by rllink

I've noticed that a lot of Bluegrassers are fretting both the high E string and the B string at the third fret when playing an open G chord....
...I wish that I had a better understanding of what I'm trying to accomplish when I do it.

1. First, know that in Bluegrass and other string band music, the guitar is a rhythm instrument and the guitar player is the driver of the band. If anybody disagrees, then they should listen to how an unamplified jam deflates when the guitarist plays a break.
   
   
2. The "Bluegrass G-chord" has a strong, clean presence that is easily heard by the other players, even though the guitar is the quiet instrument of the bunch. Playing the B-note does muddy the sound and therefore makes it less audible and it might sound wimpy.
   
   
3. Guitarists who use only the Bluegrass G are wrong whenever the melody is heavy with B-notes, especially when a phrase ends on a B-note. That is not uncommon. If the tune being played meets that description, then the guitarist should play a G-chord with the B-string open.
   
   
4. When the tune calls for a G-chord, I haven't come across an instance where playing the low B-note is necessary or even desirable. However, that does not preclude the use of that B in runs or in alternating bass arrangements.
   
   
5. As always, use your ears to inform your fingers.

[davidbeinct]

Thanks for resurrecting this semi-zombie thread. Lots of good info here.

[Robin, Wales]

Originally Posted by Italuke

Risky I know, to resurrect this one, but can anyone recall a reference where someone, a prominent player I believe, was at some point accused of playing the "girls G chord" as opposed to, I assume the "bluegrass" G? Can't find it and am curious about that...

Here's a Bluegrass "girl"



And here's a Bluegrass "boy"

[Andyrondack]

Originally Posted by Italuke

Hmm, I know what you mean but there's no such thing as a Gadd5. That's like saying "Gadd root," because the 5 is already a member of the foundational triad.

What this is as most people play it, muting the A string, is a G with no third. In the rock world it's called a power chord, although voicing may be different. A triad with no third can be heard as either major or minor, although I'd bet in bluegrass it's heard as major 99.9% of the time.

Now, that's what it is, but I too have often wondered why (mostly) the bluegrass world developed a preference for a G with no 3rd.

Those 'power chords' are also called 5 chords, so G5. Not really chords just two notes but very useful for modal folk songs.
British folkies and those accompanying session tunes on guitar use them a lot.
Not sure why this keeps coming up in relation to the G chord, don't bluegrass rythmn players do the same thing with the C and D chords?

I would guess the reason that bluegrass seems to prefer G5 is modal songs with a minor 3rd like Wild Bill Jones.