Whats the difference really - my Epiphone vs Gibson J-45 AGR

[RalphH]

Normally there is a significant spec difference - laminate vs solid wood, bass wood vs mahogony etc....

But I just bought a 'Masterbuild' AJ-500CRE. It's basically Epiphone's version of a Gibson J-45 AG Rosewood.

Before I list what is the same, I need to point out that i am not trying to convince anyone I got the same guitar at a lower price - I am under no illusions and I know that my Epi will sound nothing like it's Gibson older brother, even without trying the Gibson. That said;

They both have:
solid sitka spruce tops
solid rosewood sides & back
a hot-hide-glue dovetail neck joint
scalloped X-bracing
a trip through a plek machine

So why doesn't my Epiphone sound like a Gibson? The construction seems very similar in terms of materials and techniques. What is the difference really?

Sure one has a satin poly finish and one has nitro, but I can't believe that makes up all of the difference (if it does I see a run-in with some sand-paper in my guitars future).

Also important: I'm not bemoaning the guitar - I got it discounted and I'm very happy with it. I bought it as a 'cheaper' guitar to have around - I'm not going to use the term 'beater' as that seems unfair on it - and it's perfect for that - I am just curious about what the differences really are?

[paule]

The Gibson is short scale - 24 3/4 ".

[Dut4907]

The grade of wood they use to build the guitars. Also The materials of the nut and saddle could be different.

[RalphH]

Originally Posted by Dut4907

The grade of wood they use to build the guitars. Also The materials of the nut and saddle could be different.

Well certainly are - the Gibson has tusq as where the Epi has bone. I doubt thats the only difference between a £2500 gibson and a £575 epiphone though. Wood grade is an interesting one.

Do guitars need to individually 'tuned'? I know the Gibsons are handmade. I'm sure the Epiphone more or less comes out of an automatic guitar making machine

The depth and clarity of the sound from my Epi are not as good as my GS Mini. My wife's explaination of the difference is that it sounds like I'm playing two guitars at once when playing the GS Mini. I think she's refering to the better harmonics and the depth that gives. I'm sure a Gibson is a step up again from my GS mini.

[Larry Mal]

Guitar makers so mention that they "tap tune" the guitar tops and such looking for the best ones.

[RalphH]

Originally Posted by Larry Mal

Guitar makers so mention that they "tap tune" the guitar tops and such looking for the best ones.

Cool. I think it's a 100% safe bet to say that Epiphone are not doing that.

[tomiv9]

Gibson does not tap tune tops either, only high end small builders do that. They grade and select would purely on aesthetics. So Gibson likely has prettier more expensive wood, as well as hardware. Now the tops may be thinner than epiphones and or X bracing may be more heavily scalloped, requiring more hand work. I think that would be the main reason for difference in cost and tone

[tomiv9]

Also the thickness of the finish also significantly affects tone. A thick finish is cheap, but inhibits vibration of the top. That's likely another contributor to the expense and tone of the Gibson

[RalphH]

Originally Posted by tomiv9

Also the thickness of the finish also significantly affects tone. A thick finish is cheap, but inhibits vibration of the top. That's likely another contributor to the expense and tone of the Gibson

I have been known to refinish guitars before...

Only kidding -- I'm not actually trying to turn this into a Gibson.

[Larry Mal]

Originally Posted by tomiv9

Gibson does not tap tune tops either, only high end small builders do that. They grade and select would purely on aesthetics. So Gibson likely has prettier more expensive wood, as well as hardware. Now the tops may be thinner than epiphones and or X bracing may be more heavily scalloped, requiring more hand work. I think that would be the main reason for difference in cost and tone

Maybe not on all models, but I have heard of them tap tuning at least some models at least some times. I mean they make guitars that cost as much as anyone else at $8-10k and such, I am pretty sure those would get a little more selection than just pretty wood.

But what do I know- regardless, I doubt a J-45 Standard would get much tap tuning (I own one) and Gibson likely does make sure they use up almost every bit of wood somewhere.

You are correct, though, just because the Gibson and Epiphone do both have scalloped X bracing that doesn't mean that they are at all the same. Here's what Gibson has to say about their "tone bars":

http://aws2.gibson.com/News-Lifestyl...-Acoustic.aspx

[parlorpower82]

Chinese vs American made.

[RalphH]

Originally Posted by parlorpower82

Chinese vs American made.

I don't think that really counts for much on it's own. American workers aren't inherently 'better' unless they're given more time to work, trained to do a more complex job, given better materials to work with or better designs to work from, etc.

American made phone:


Chinese made phone:

[PAPADON]

I used to own both an expensive high end Martin and a just as expensive Taylor and sold them both off in favor of less expensive guitars with comparable specs that to me sound and play every bit as good. After all specs are specs and a guitar has them or it does not have them. I've asked that question myself and to this day I haven't gotten a convincing answer as to why an expensive (big name) guitar is worth more money than a cost effective one with equal specs. I'm going to venture an educated guess that in this thread you are going to hear numerous subjective (opinionated) answers to that question and zero objective (empirically provable) answers.

[drive-south]

Gibson guitars are built in a Gibson factory by Gibson employees. Gibson has their own plantation where they grow Honduran mahogany. This wood is not used on Epiphone guitars.

Epiphone guitars are made in numerous Asian countries in factories not owned by Gibson. The guitars are built to a spec and price point. Epiphone guitars incorporate a 3 piece neck with scarf joint and heel stack. Gibson uses 1 piece necks made of Honduran mahogany. That is only one example of the difference in construction and materials.

The factories building Epiphone guitars also crank out Dean, Samick, etc. Epiphones are more similar to those brands than they are to Gibson.

If you want a guitar that is more similar to a Gibson at a lower price check out Eastman.

[foxo]

Originally Posted by parlorpower82

Chinese vs American made.

It accounts in no small part for the cost saving though. Chinese workers are paid considerably less. The factories where these guitars are built will also be very different in terms of production methods and quality control.