Individual voicing of 'factory made' guitars?

[islandguitar]

+1 for Dana Bourgeois. Attended a workshop given by him earlier in May. He had two tops which he brought with him and voiced one of them as he spoke and answered questions from the audience of about 50 folks. Because he was speaking to a group while doing this task, he didn't want to try to go 100% of what he'd do in the shop while trying to answer questions at the same time....took it "80%" ....a noticable difference in the resonance and tap tone between the two tops when he finished. The top he worked on was quite stiff and he remarked about this as things went along.....the finished top ( well, 80% finished) was also noticably more flexible ( edge release?) after he worked on the braces. No question that there is a of parallel between what his web site offers about his process and what he professes in person about his instruments. It was a very enjoyable evening.

[CET]

Bruce - I wasn't questioning your methods at all; quite the contrary, actually! I just wanted to be sure I understood what you meant. Thanks for the clarification.

[Bruce Sexauer]

Originally Posted by royd

For me... the small shops seem to provide the most bang for the buck when, at this time in my life, I can't justify the additional cost of an individually produced instrument. If I could, I would.

Fortunately, I only need to find a dozen people a year with both the taste AND the pocketbook.

[royd]

Originally Posted by Bruce Sexauer

Fortunately, I only need to find a dozen people a year with both the taste AND the pocketbook.

and Bruce, should my pocketbook ever grow to the appropriate size, you'll be on my list

[Bruce Sexauer]

No problem CET, at this point in my life I am pretty settled into what I do. I am aware that I have my own style and that not everyone agrees, not that I thought you were that, but I am way into my methods. I imagine that my methods are of value, and I would like to share them with the goal of enhancing the world we are in. There's room for all, of course.

[Trevor M]

Hi Royd,

"Occasionally, they hit one out of the park... and occasionally they produce a real dog.."

I think what you and others are hinting at is the standard distribution curve, I'm no expert in this but it means in mass production most will be average and there will be outliers at each end.

[dberkowitz]

A couple of thoughts....

First, the better large production houses -- Taylor, Martin, get 80% of the guitar right, 100% of the time. That may be a little bit of an exaggeration because little stuff slips through, but you get the idea. You'll get excelentl guitars, but you've got to play a few to find the one that is just outstanding by any measure.

Smaller production shops, Collings, SCGCo, Bourgeois, give more time to voicing their guitars and so generally have a higher success rate relative to the larger builders.

Saying the boutique makers on average are better than the production shops is, I think, generous. Like the larger manufacturers, there is great variation in what is available and the level of fit and finish and sonics. To a greater degree, you get what you pay for. From the better makers you get a custom instrument with the appointments you want, a visual aesthetic that appeals to you and usually a higher consistency in sonics. It is not a given that all boutique builders use equivalent materials, as this is often not the case. Bruce has tops he's been hoarding his entire career that cannot be replaced by new ones. From the better builders you get instruments built to the edge of response for that style of instrument, something you don't often get from the larger manufacturers unless you do some searching.

People have different ideas about voicing and what it entails. Some voice the top as a free-plate, that is they adjust the braces and the top before it goes on the sides; others voice the top and braces on the frame. There are excellent guitars from both camps and the methodology is less important than whether the results are satisfying. I've always voiced with the top glued to the sides because I never could imagine how the free plate response would translate when it would eventually be glued to the sides. I adjust not to a particular note, but to a range of stiffness based on flexing the top and adjusting the tap response of the top so it is even. I do not have a problem with Dana's use of what often is called "horseshoe" sanding, i.e., the sanding of the perimeter of the top from the waist down. I've played a number of his production guitars and they speak for themselves as excellent guitars, particularly in their price point. This kind of perimeter sanding is often used on classical guitars so it isn't some foreign concept to luthiery.

[HHP]

I have one guitar that was "voiced" as part of the build, and several that weren't. Each was bought for a particular sound quality, and I and no happier with the "voiced" guitar than the others. Like the others, it fits its assigned role well. Overall, I don't much care how they did it in either case, just that they produced what I was looking for.

[Richard Mott]

On the production vs. luthier question, I saw a great quote once, not sure from whom (Al Carruth?), to the effect "Consistent approaches to inconsistent materials produce inconsistent results." The idea being that production building has to set fairly consistent parameters, but that the wood doesn't cooperate.

[Bruce Sexauer]

One of the cleverer formula builders I've met was John Gilbert. He strictly adhered to his recipe and made an art of choosing his materials to fit a very narrow structural range. A lot of measuring and analysis was involved, and while it did produce relatively consistant results, to me it simply didn't look like a lot of fun. John is (was?) a pretty serious guy.

[dberkowitz]

Was, Bruce. He passed away a few months ago.

[TuckerRE]

Trevor...I agree with you!

"I think what you and others are hinting at is the standard distribution curve, I'm no expert in this but it means in mass production most will be average and there will be outliers at each end."

I did something once that is a bit off topic, but with good result(s) - Richard Johnston at Gryphon in Palo Alto scalloped the bracing of my circa 1974 OO-21 Martin which was built (in their "Industrial Era", as I call it) w/o scalloped bracing, by using a small, hand-plane thru the soundhole while simultaneously watching TV shows (a true multi-tasker)!

I suppose you could call it "voicing" after-the-fact, but I was/am pleased with the results.

Bob

[Bruce Sexauer]

Thank you, David.

[Acoustom]

I think everyone would be surprised if they only purchased guitars using the blind listening method. By that I mean bring a friend with you to you're favorite guitar shop and have them get 5 guitars ready to play, without you seeing what they chose. Then sit with your back to them and have them play each guitar in no particular order and see which one that you thought was the best. I think so much of guitar buying is visual, by that I mean the style of the guitar and the name on the headstock.