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  #31  
Old 02-24-2020, 01:16 PM
Silly Moustache Silly Moustache is offline
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This thread gave me an idea for a little video:

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  #32  
Old 02-24-2020, 02:02 PM
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cliff_the_stiff cliff_the_stiff is offline
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I've been teaching guitar for over 40 years and if there is one thing I know for sure it is that a good teacher needs to constantly assess the student's needs, desires and potential. These things can and usually do change as time passes. The vast majority of the many hundreds of students I've had are just like you: they want to see progress, they want to learn what's important in terms of technique and theory but most of all, they are doing it for their own enjoyment with no aspirations of glory. I always factor that into my lesson planning, which I do on a weekly basis for each and every student. A teacher who's bound to one course of study or a strict regimen and a "one size fits all" way of teaching is doing his or her students a disservice in the long run. Sooner or later, as the student makes progress he will figure out what he really wants to play in terms of music styles and techniques, and often that is quite different than his ideas when he started. A teacher who doesn't recognize this and is more of the "my way or the highway" type is not going to be successful in the long run.

Look, at the risk of sounding cynical (OK, it is cynical!) it is much, much easier for a teacher to stick to a rigid course of study: little or no lesson planning to do! When you can play page 10, we will go on to page 11 and not before! My whole family is and where professional musicians, some quite known and very successful and "serious musicians." My dad, who was a very well known drummer in the Big Band days was the sweetest, kindest man who ever lived - except when it came to learning an instrument. Watching him and my uncle and my grandfather teach in a rigid way taught me that for some people (most, I think) this traditional way of teaching music is fraught with anxiety and stress for the student, mixed with varying amounts of satisfaction of accomplishment. I knew there had to be a better way.

No guitar teacher should ever forget for one minute that their students are there because they want to be and they often need not only a guitar teacher but a cheerleader. A good teacher never forgets to focus as much on what the student CAN do as well as what he can't!

But in spite of my best efforts, for one reason or another there is the occasional student for whom I am not a good match. I accept this and if that becomes apparent I do not hesitate to suggest they either take some time off from lessons - or find another teacher. Some guitar teachers I've seen over the years are unable to do this and I suspect that has more to do with their ego than caring about what's right for the student.

So, I suggest that you take some time off from your lessons, digest what you've learned and then either go back to your present teacher with specific questions and clarify your needs and expectations.....or find another teacher.

Good luck and I hope you keep playing!

Gene
Hi- I really appreciate Gene’s perspective here.
I have taken lessons from many teachers, I have given informal lessons- one of the challenges for a teacher is to communicate that what I’m teaching is the fundamental building block to their reaching of their goals- not just scales and metering-
I think the fastest way to learn and play well is to play with others. So how do I get to where I can progress most quickly?
Metering is critical to playing with others. Scales teach your fingers and ears where the notes are- We don’t need a teacher every week to learn this- but sometimes don’t hold ourselves accountable to practice- so the risk of wasted time and money is a motivator.

Lessons move faster than my ability to learn- So periodically I will get lessons, monitor my ability to learn and keep up. The day i get the same lesson on consecutive weeks usually indicates that I need to practice what I am learning, and a break from lessons makes sense.

Flat picking- I found that learning finger picking with out a plectrum teaches me where the strings are without trying to learn where the strings are- Could be my learning style, but once I learn how to play a song with finger tips- then I pick up the plectrum and recreate the Arpeggios- that is how I do it...
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  #33  
Old 02-24-2020, 02:21 PM
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ljguitar ljguitar is offline
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…So, I've been taking guitar lessons for a few months now and I'm thinking about quitting.

…I know I'm never going to be a professional musician, it's just a hobby for me.
What do you think, should I stick with it a little longer and see what happens?
Hi MMax

I taught for 40 years, and had many students who would take lessons for a few months and then take a break to let it work into their style. Then some would be back for more, and others had gone as far as they wanted to.

I even referred students to other teachers, or suggested breaks from time to time.

I saw the hard part for them was they like me, but felt like they were somehow betraying me if they stopped lessons. I assured them our friendship was intact, and in fact often met up with them at open mics or other gigs.

I suggest being honest, and do what's best for you.



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  #34  
Old 02-24-2020, 03:54 PM
Mad Max Mad Max is offline
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So much great information and opinions here. I appreciate all of the advice.
The more I learn bluegrass guitar, the more it makes me want to get back into playing banjo. I spent years learning/playing banjo(I probably should have mentioned that in my OP) when I lived with at home with my parents. But I haven't picked one up in years. Mostly because the one I learned on is my dad's and I can't afford one as nice as that one. But I've looking at some used intermediate banjos on Reverb and I'm thinking about getting one.
As far as guitar goes, the music store I take lessons at have multiple guitar teachers. One focusing electric/shredding/metal, One focusing on flat picking/bluegrass/country and One focusing on general guitar/theory. I think I'm going to switch to the general guitar/theory guy and try to learn how to play and sing at the same time, something I've always wanted to be able to do. I just want to be able to sing and play guitar around a campfire, more than anything else. I just think that bluegrass flat picking is a discipline that I don't have the time to pay the attention to, that it takes to be good at it, where as I've already put that time and practice into the banjo.

Last edited by Mad Max; 02-24-2020 at 04:01 PM.
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  #35  
Old 02-24-2020, 04:31 PM
Mad Max Mad Max is offline
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This thread gave me an idea for a little video:

Great video and channel. Liked and subscribed
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  #36  
Old 02-24-2020, 05:17 PM
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So, I've been taking guitar lessons for a few months now and I'm thinking about quitting. My teacher is very good but very serious about technique and playing in time(which I guess he should be) but I feel like having a strict regiment of scales and a song that I'm supposed to have learned by the next week, sort of takes the fun out of playing for me.
Playing guitar for me, is a way to unwind after a hard day of factory work. Also, a hard day at the shop, leaves my body(and hands) sore. So I don't feel like I'm giving the stuff he gives me to practice, the time and attention it deserves because I either don't have the time(because of working overtime) or the energy.
Plus, I know I'm never going to be a professional musician, it's just a hobby for me.
What do you think, should I stick with it a little longer and see what happens?
Agree. The instructor has to go the distance, even if you don't, because the basics are the basics. I suppose he could take into account what you've divulged here about your casual approach to something that's just a hobby, but that's on you to let him know. He might consider you less of a serious student and cut you a break from meeting his expectations over time. I know I would.

I never took lessons and feel that I've not suffered from it, but I was a serious student of the guitar in my own right and pushed myself hard. It wasn't until much later when I settled down to playing for personal recreation that I relaxed. But, I front-loaded the basics and I'm glad I did.
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  #37  
Old 02-24-2020, 05:30 PM
roylor4 roylor4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
So much great information and opinions here. I appreciate all of the advice.
The more I learn bluegrass guitar, the more it makes me want to get back into playing banjo. I spent years learning/playing banjo(I probably should have mentioned that in my OP) when I lived with at home with my parents. But I haven't picked one up in years. Mostly because the one I learned on is my dad's and I can't afford one as nice as that one. But I've looking at some used intermediate banjos on Reverb and I'm thinking about getting one.
As far as guitar goes, the music store I take lessons at have multiple guitar teachers. One focusing electric/shredding/metal, One focusing on flat picking/bluegrass/country and One focusing on general guitar/theory. I think I'm going to switch to the general guitar/theory guy and try to learn how to play and sing at the same time, something I've always wanted to be able to do. I just want to be able to sing and play guitar around a campfire, more than anything else. I just think that bluegrass flat picking is a discipline that I don't have the time to pay the attention to, that it takes to be good at it, where as I've already put that time and practice into the banjo.
My wife is a banjo picker. If you'd like advice on affordable, but good, banjos - feel free to PM me.

As for playing & singing at the same time - that's more of a "just do it" kind of thing (IMO).

We play multiple genres of music, both acoustic and electric and, like you, do not care to be pidgeonholed into one category.

Clawhammer is more of a "singer" banjo style, BG - not so much.
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  #38  
Old 02-24-2020, 06:58 PM
Mad Max Mad Max is offline
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Originally Posted by roylor4 View Post
My wife is a banjo picker. If you'd like advice on affordable, but good, banjos - feel free to PM me.



As for playing & singing at the same time - that's more of a "just do it" kind of thing (IMO).



We play multiple genres of music, both acoustic and electric and, like you, do not care to be pidgeonholed into one category.



Clawhammer is more of a "singer" banjo style, BG - not so much.
PM sent.
I've never been able to play and sing at the same time, hopefully this new instructor can give me some exercises to do or something, to make it easier for me.
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  #39  
Old 02-25-2020, 09:26 AM
acoustigoat acoustigoat is offline
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PM sent.
I've never been able to play and sing at the same time, hopefully this new instructor can give me some exercises to do or something, to make it easier for me.
Have you looked to see if there are any jams near you, bluegrass or not? I never thought I would sing and play either, but last year I started attending a bluegrass slow jam near me and the leader encourages everyone to sing. That led to me joining a smaller group that meets twice a month and singing with them. I've worked hard on my rhythm playing and also selected a couple flatpicking pieces in our repertoire to play. Perhaps this could be a way to dip your toe into bluegrass flatpicking and even play some banjo. I have a great teacher I see a couple times a month, but playing with other people has advanced my playing more than anything else.

I'll also throw out the videos from Lessons with Marcel as something to check out. He does a nice job breaking down topics in a relaxed and friendly way.
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  #40  
Old 02-25-2020, 11:24 AM
DesertTwang DesertTwang is offline
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What do you think, should I stick with it a little longer and see what happens?
No, not under the circumstances you describe. I've taken music lessons, off and on, since I was 6 years old. The scenario you describe fits the traditional model of child's music lesson, not something a good teacher would impart on an adult, much less on an adult who has very clear ideas of what they want their guitar journey to be, like you do.

I'm not saying lessons aren't right for you, but I have a hunch your teacher may not be. When you're taking music lessons as an adult with no professional ambitions, the teacher needs to listen to you and develop the lessons according to your goals, not the other way around.
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  #41  
Old 02-25-2020, 12:02 PM
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Agree that taking a break from this teacher isn't a bad idea. He'll still be there anytime you find yourself wanting to go back to him, but I suspect you can do better.
I'm gonna go out on a limb with an assumption here - that he may be a knowledgeable guitarist, but probably not a practicing bluegrasser - i.e. plays in a band that only plays bluegrass, goes to jams, festivals etc. Because it sounds like he isn't instilling the stoke for bluegrass and playing it that a well grounded bluegrasser would. He's just giving you tools that are useful. But tools aren't worth a da*n w/out a good supply of enthusiasm, and of the two, the latter is FAR more important.
It may be a good time to take a break from lessons and work on material that he has given you at a manageable pace. Or you can see my recommendation below.
I've used several lesson formats specifically for bluegrass playing (guitar, mando & fiddle) and my top recommend for when you want to devote time to lessons again is to try a 3 month subscription with Bryan Sutton at Artistworks online academy. It's generally cheaper than in-person lessons and the instructors are world class. I have no affiliation, it's just a brilliant learning format and he's a great teacher who loves teaching bluegrass guitar. You have total flexibility as to how you approach the curriculum and what your pace is; he'll be glad to give you recommendations if you want.
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  #42  
Old 02-25-2020, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Mad Max View Post
So, I've been taking guitar lessons for a few months now and I'm thinking about quitting. My teacher is very good but very serious about technique and playing in time(which I guess he should be) but I feel like having a strict regiment of scales and a song that I'm supposed to have learned by the next week, sort of takes the fun out of playing for me.
Playing guitar for me, is a way to unwind after a hard day of factory work. Also, a hard day at the shop, leaves my body(and hands) sore. So I don't feel like I'm giving the stuff he gives me to practice, the time and attention it deserves because I either don't have the time(because of working overtime) or the energy.
Plus, I know I'm never going to be a professional musician, it's just a hobby for me.
What do you think, should I stick with it a little longer and see what happens?
You should leave, you're wasting TWO people's time. Your teacher's agenda is to make you the best musician you can be. You have the desire to play, but desire isn't enough. Sacrifice, discipline but most of all PASSION are required to succeed in any endeavor.
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  #43  
Old 02-25-2020, 08:25 PM
Mad Max Mad Max is offline
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You should leave, you're wasting TWO people's time. Your teacher's agenda is to make you the best musician you can be. You have the desire to play, but desire isn't enough. Sacrifice, discipline but most of all PASSION are required to succeed in any endeavor.
Hey man, is that you? lol.
If not, you sound just like him. I called this morning and quit. Like I said in previous posts. I wish I had more time to devote to the discipline of playing bluegrass guitar, I just don't. If playing guitar in my basement for fun, makes me a guitar OWNER instead of a guitar PLAYER, I can live with that.
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  #44  
Old 02-26-2020, 11:37 AM
DesertTwang DesertTwang is offline
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Hey man, is that you? lol.
If not, you sound just like him. I called this morning and quit. Like I said in previous posts. I wish I had more time to devote to the discipline of playing bluegrass guitar, I just don't. If playing guitar in my basement for fun, makes me a guitar OWNER instead of a guitar PLAYER, I can live with that.
Ahh, bluegrass! I hear you, as that's my genre of choice as well. I, too, struggle with making the time to become a better picker, and there are times when I seriously question my decision to choose flatpicking out of all possible guitar playing styles. As two of my teachers have said, one of them being Bryan Sutton, flatpicking bluegrass guitar is one of the most demanding styles in terms of physical ability and technique.

Over the past two years, between being a new parent and a demanding, full-time day job, I have wondered whether I shouldn't be just happy with strumming songs and letting go of that goal of becoming a better flatpicker, because making the time for taking lessons and practicing. let alone gigging, has been incredibly difficult for me.

That said, I just can't resolve to being a guitar owner. I can't even resolve to being a guitar player just for my own enjoyment. I guess my passion for this style of music is too great, and that in turn drives my passion to improve all the time and to play this music with others (it's bluegrass after all), and perform, so I go to great lengths to find opportunities to practice with other musicians and land the occasional gig. All this at a time when many people who are "in their right minds" would say, "this is just not the time for stuff like that." But before my son was born, I vowed to not be one of those people who later say they stopped playing guitar because "life and family got in the way."

Everybody has to make that decision, and I think what really matters is how much you want it all. There is no reason to artificially impose goals onto yourself that you aren't really passionate about, and that's kind of what shines through your post.

There is no right or wrong, and I think our passions guide us to what we really need or want in many ways in life, music being one of them.
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  #45  
Old 02-26-2020, 11:55 AM
roylor4 roylor4 is offline
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You should leave, you're wasting TWO people's time. Your teacher's agenda is to make you the best musician you can be. You have the desire to play, but desire isn't enough. Sacrifice, discipline but most of all PASSION are required to succeed in any endeavor.
You have no idea what the teachers agenda is, nor how much or how little work the OP put in. You may not mean it to, but this post comes off as sanctimonious and self-righteous........
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