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Old 04-18-2018, 08:17 AM
815C 815C is offline
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Default Question about sound hole pickups for fingerstyle - and subsequent processing

I've noticed a lot of really great fingerstyle players use sound hole pickups (see videos below). I'm looking to get into a bit of the two handed tapping/fingerstyle approach to playing and don't want to reinvent in the wheel in regards to the following:
  • Typical string guages (I'm assuming LIGHT guage strings are typically used)
  • Action (I'm assuming LOW action is typically used)
  • Best make/model of sound hole pickups
  • Subsequent processing (e.g. compression, reverb, etc.)
  • Anything else that would help in this venture

Thanks!
David



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Old 04-19-2018, 03:38 AM
JonnyBGood JonnyBGood is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 815C View Post
I've noticed a lot of really great fingerstyle players use sound hole pickups (see videos below).
Usually this is part of a multisource pick up system and not the main source, and is there just to add some string clarity at the bottom end of a mix. Soundhole/magnetic pickups will not pickup any body percussion, for example (as a rule, there are one or two exceptions). If anything, the starting point for these players is a good soundboard transducer eg Andy Mckee only uses the K&K Pure mini these day. Internal mics are very common also.

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Originally Posted by 815C View Post
[*]Typical string guages (I'm assuming LIGHT guage strings are typically used)
Nope, usually the opposite in fact for contemporary/percussive fingerstyle, which tends to use altered tunings (Misko in your clip below uses lots of altered tunings including live detuning as you can see). You need thicker strings to withstand the lower tension tuning to preserve intonation and prevent buzz.

Most players I like in this style use 13s, or a mix of 13s + 12. Preston Reed and Andy Mckee both use 13s for example. I like a 'true medium' mix of 13s and 12s as I play a lot in DADGAD. So your repertoire choice and tunings is a critical factor.

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Originally Posted by 815C View Post
[*]Action (I'm assuming LOW action is typically used)
Yes. A very good set up with a low action is required.

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Originally Posted by 815C View Post
[*]Best make/model of sound hole pickups
No such thing as best and this is down to personal choice. Some suggestions - eg. Mike Dawes, Antonie Dufour and Calum Graham all use a Dimarzio Black Angel (plus other sources as mentioned above), Jon Gomm and Preston Reed use the Fishman Rare Earth blend. There are other magnetic/soundhole pickups that get very good reviews also eg the M80.

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Originally Posted by 815C View Post
[*]Subsequent processing (e.g. compression, reverb, etc.)
Compression is the last thing I'd probably want as a fingerstyle soloist, it will kill the dynamics and nuances. Reverb yes.

EQ is probably the single most important thing, and if you are going to use multiple pick sources it is preferable to EQ and mix these separately, which means you need a very good preamp. FX choice is again driven by your choice of repertoire as would other outboard gear such as a looper which several of the guitarists I have mentioned use.

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[*]Anything else that would help in this venture
Lots and lots and lots of practice. Assembling gear is probably the easiest part and really the last thing to worry about. Rather than starting with a shopping list of gear I would suggest diving in and learning pieces on a well set up guitar. You will soon discover what you like, what you are able to play, what players you like the sound of, whether you are going to play live and where...and these will influence your choice of strings, FX and other gear.
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Old 04-19-2018, 06:05 AM
815C 815C is offline
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Thanks so much JonnyBGood! This is great info!
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Old 04-19-2018, 06:14 AM
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fazool fazool is offline
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Also, if you are using a magnetic soundhole pickup, lighter strings have less iron mass and will create less output as they move through the magnetic flux. Meaning lighter strings = less magnetic force = less pickup output.

So, heavier strings are better with soundhole pickups.
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Old 05-29-2018, 06:17 PM
lkingston lkingston is offline
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Default Question about sound hole pickups for fingerstyle - and subsequent processing

Quote:
Originally Posted by fazool View Post
Also, if you are using a magnetic soundhole pickup, lighter strings have less iron mass and will create less output as they move through the magnetic flux. Meaning lighter strings = less magnetic force = less pickup output.



So, heavier strings are better with soundhole pickups.


What you say makes sense theoretically, but I couldn’t hear a difference between 12s and 13s when I experimented.

One my Epiphone DR500MCE, I heard a noticeable drop in volume with Elixer strings from the Shadow magnetic pickup, but with my Skysonic FS-1 (magnetic soundhole pickup/microphone combination) the Elixer 12s sound just fine. This is likely because I turn the mic all the way up and just dial in a little of the magnetic pickup.

Be aware that there is a huge difference between wound and unwound 3rd strings over a magnetic soundhole pickup. The wound string has a skinny little steel core and the unwound string is all steel core. That might just mean using different pole heights. I know Laurence Juber uses an unwound 3rd string because he likes the way it bends. I personally like the sound of a wound G string better.

I highly recommend experimenting with strings if you get a soundhole pickup. The magnetic/mic acoustic guitar pickups are my favorite systems for fingerstyle. No, they aren’t necessarily the most authentic acoustic sound, but it is very pleasing and it brings out the inner voicings sort of like a jazzbox while still sounding very acoustic.
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Old 05-29-2018, 11:49 PM
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Tele1111 Tele1111 is offline
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Hey David,

As you acknowledge, Jonny gave you some great insight.
He obviously is experienced. I was reading it and thinking-yes, yes, yes.
Solid advice all the way around.

The examples you linked are polar opposite in execution. As Jonny said, play around and see what you like well enough to want to play. Figure that out first, as that will have a big influence on what you need to make it work. Pickups, strings, technique.

I’m in the “between” category on strings. That is to say I prefer a light top heavy bottom set of string gauges. If I have a dedicated guitar for a much used open tuning, you can decide once again, on what you’re going to do with that guitar, and that will dictate what gauge of strings and what setup you need on that instrument.

Which brings me to my next point. I think it’s best to have at least two guitars dedicated to play fingerstyle. One that you keep in an open tuning, and one that is used for everything. You can use one guitar and retune constantly, but that’s hard for most audiences to accept. It’s simply more practical for you as a performer as well. The guitar you keep in a much used open tuning doesn’t have to stay there all the time. A lot of tunings have just one or two strings that can be retuned to get to another commonly used tuning.

I’ve tried and used a lot of soundhole pickups. But in truth, the styles I play don’t suffer without one. There are mag p/u’s That also have transducers, so you do get a bit of body resonance. But obviously they will amplify any percussive technique you use-intentional or not. Multi source is a must-but I’d stick with a mag without this feature if you wind up using any transducer
(k and k etc) as one of your sources.

Welcome to the rabbit hole.

Mark
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Last edited by Tele1111; 05-29-2018 at 11:56 PM.
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