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  #31  
Old 12-07-2013, 07:37 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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I would love to hear some more sound samples of this set up. I am pretty sure I want to go this route but my main concern is how it sounds with strumming.
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  #32  
Old 12-08-2013, 06:38 AM
BoB/335 BoB/335 is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Undecided. They're different. Both sound good.



yes, mostly, that or the Raven Labs PMB-1. Actually most gigs these days, I just use a mic, so I haven't had as much experience with the K&K+Lyric as I'd like yet. But nothing beats a mic, so that's fine.

The SPS-1 module is nice because it's simple. Fingertip control of volume and balance right on the guitar. Turn it down and change guitars easily, don't even have to bend over to reach some preamp or have some big box sitting beside me. Fits in a packet or a gig bag. Plenty of gain and clear sound. I don't need EQ on stage, that's the last thing I want to be fussing with - I can't really EQ from behind the PA anyway, so just let the sound guy do it out front where he can hear what the audience hears. And the module doesn't rule out anything. I can plug it into a mixer directly, I can plug it into the SPS-1 rack if I need it, I can even plug it into my Humphrey amp. Anything that has a pair of phantom powered XLR ins. I'm actually experimenting with a more complicated setup right now: UAD Apollo + computer, and I can plug the SPS-1 module into that as well.

This sounds more convenient that lugging around a Solstice. I'm a bit confused on the power for an internal condenser mic though.
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  #33  
Old 12-08-2013, 08:58 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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With respect to the issue of needing extra gear for double-sourcing:

FWIW, I like to double-source in a way which requires no blender. I set for a good strumming blend running to two mixer channels. When I need to boost the volume a bit for bare-fingered picking, I use my Fishman Platinum preamp to boost the level from a single source - the passive PUTW I/O UST in my guitar. Since I really like the sound of that particular pickup for barefingered picking, it doesn't disturb me that there's less of the second source (Wendler Dynafield IV) in the blend when I boost the level.

I see the Lyric as being very similar to the Dynafield IV, so I'd probably use the same approach if I was double-sourcing the Lyric with the PUTW I/O UST.

Last edited by guitaniac; 12-08-2013 at 09:35 AM.
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  #34  
Old 12-08-2013, 09:23 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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With respect to the idea of using the Anthem instead of the K&K/Lyric combo, its good to remember that the Anthem's UST supplies every fundamental pitch on the guitar from the B3 pitch (open 'b' string) at 247Hz to the E2 pitch (open low E string) at 82Hz, or lower (depending on how the guitar is tuned).

If you happen to like the Pure Mini sound better than the Element UST sound (as most of us do), combining the Pure Mini with the Lyric should provide a noticeably better result.
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  #35  
Old 12-08-2013, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by BoB/335 View Post
TI'm a bit confused on the power for an internal condenser mic though.
The SPS-1 module provides the needed power on the ring. There are actually 3 modules, one is mono, one is for 2 pickups, one is for pickup/mic. So you can pick the one you need. The only downside is that you have to plug it into XLR inputs that provide phantom power.
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  #36  
Old 12-08-2013, 05:25 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Doug, I know you are busy and that it can be a pain but is there any way that you could record this set up again to hear what it sounds like with strumming? I am really interested in how it sounds while strumming but also how it sounds with only a bit of the Lyric blended in. Obviously if you don't get around to it that's fine, just thought I would put in the request!
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  #37  
Old 12-08-2013, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Petty1818 View Post
Doug, I know you are busy and that it can be a pain but is there any way that you could record this set up again to hear what it sounds like with strumming? I am really interested in how it sounds while strumming but also how it sounds with only a bit of the Lyric blended in. Obviously if you don't get around to it that's fine, just thought I would put in the request!

Here's a quick one:

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/mp3/L...c_Strummed.mp3

Both pickups, summed to mono, mixed roughly equal volume, straight into the recorder via the SPS-1 module. I cut a couple of db at 1K on this, and added just a touch of room reverb, cause it sounded pretty stark and quacky bare. The direct recording always sounds worse than thru speakers, of course, and I'm really not much of a strummer, so I may not be doing it justice tone-wise.
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  #38  
Old 12-08-2013, 08:23 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Wow! thanks Doug, that was very quick! I absolutely love the sound of this dual source set up. I remember hearing your initial recording of the K&K/Lyric and liking it but this latest sound clip really confirmed for me that I need to try this set up. Thanks again for the recording!
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  #39  
Old 12-08-2013, 08:25 PM
BoB/335 BoB/335 is offline
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Hey Doug,

I was checking out some of your videos on your website earlier today. You are some great player!!! If I played like that I would deserve the effort that I am making with regards to a great sound.

This last demo you posted sounded great! I am certainly not getting a strumming sound like that out of my guitar. It's time to get my project back in gear! Thanks for the kick in the pants!
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  #40  
Old 12-08-2013, 08:36 PM
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Glad it came thru. Just for documentation sake, that was my Martin OM28LJ, K&K in the usual place, Lyric behind the bridge. Old strings :-( time for a change. A 1mm Dunlop pick. I didn't think it sounded as good on the recording as it seems to sound in the room - common issue, and I last did any real strumming around 1982, so I really don't have the touch there. I'm sure someone else would make it sound better. There are also a lot of different tones just by how much you blend each pickup in, even before doing any EQ.
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  #41  
Old 12-08-2013, 09:11 PM
rschultz rschultz is offline
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Originally Posted by Doug Young View Post
Wow... how'z come my K&K + Lyric doesn't sound that good Oh wait, it's because I'm not Doug Young!

Kidding aside, impressive sound. I wonder if I have to cut so much midrange because my Taylor is a mahogany jumbo. Maybe in a Rosewood OM it would be more scooped. And I'm not discounting technique. A strum is a strum, but the nuances of fingerstyle allow for different players to get totally different tones out of the same guitar.

Maybe when Christmas is over I'll have time to make a recording of mine...
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  #42  
Old 12-08-2013, 10:25 PM
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I wonder if I have to cut so much midrange because my Taylor is a mahogany jumbo.
I think the guitar probably matters a lot, and may be unpredictable. If you recall, when I first got the Lyric, I tried it in my 914 first, and the results weren't all that impressive. It sounds much better in my Martin. The guys at AG were knocked out by how good it sounded in Scott Nygaard's D28, apparently better than in an OM. So hard to tell.
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  #43  
Old 12-08-2013, 10:45 PM
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Here's another sample, as long as I'm messing with it, getting a bit far afield from the raw Lyric and K&K, tho. This is the new setup I've been messing with. So I have my Martin OM with K&K+Lyric, into the SPS-1 end pin module, into a UAD Apollo with a Mac Air and assorted UAD plugins. I'm decoding the 2 pickups as if they were "MS", giving me, at least in theory, a sound that is completely mono compatible and should sound fine to people on either side of a room, and sound nicely stereo to anyone sitting in the middle. I'm using a little EQ and a Lexicon 224 reverb. Here's just a few seconds of noodling, recorded direct out of the rig:

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/mp3/L...ric_Apollo.mp3
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  #44  
Old 12-08-2013, 11:05 PM
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Oops, one more demo. I knew there was something bothering me about the sound of 1st "strummed" example. It sounded ok, but the K&K and Lyric weren't interacting the way I had heard before. I was using the SPS-1 pickup/mic module, which has a very low impedance on the mic side (K&K side), low enough that it was rolling a lot of low end off the K&K. Here's a demo where I'm using the right SPS-1 module, high impedance on both sides.

I'm just strumming here, and there are 3 passes. Pass 1 is the Lyric alone, pass 2 is the K&K alone, pass 3 is the two summed together equally, all in mono. No EQ at all on this. Probably could benefit from some, but it's close enough. Might be too much low end from the K&K for some people strumming, but easily fixed.

http://www.dougyoungguitar.com/mp3/L..._Strummed2.mp3
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  #45  
Old 12-09-2013, 04:40 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Doug, thank you for the helpful sound clips! It really does sound like the Lyric offers a nice bit of high end that the K&K seems to lack. I am going to try this set up soon but through two separate jacks. I will either run two separate guitar cables or try to find a Y stereo cable although they are difficult to track down. I am thinking that I would probably rely more on the K&K with just a bit of the Lyric blended in. The 50/50 sounds are awesome but I hear more Lyric than I would like. The Lyric has some qualities that are not exactly perfect for my set up but I think it would work well with the K&K. I think the big thing will be feedback. I am interested to see how it is with feedback. I have a K&K in one guitar and don't have any issues.
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