Learning lead lines if music isn't available

12stringhack · #1 05-30-2006, 01:27 PM

I've decided it's time to kick up the skill set so I've undertaken the task of "learning the fretboard". The text suggests finding a song with a great lead line and working through it.

Okay, but how do you do this if you really like something that wasn't published? What do the professionals do?

I hate to be an idiot (but my kids say I'm great at it

) but figured after 35 years I should know how to do this properly.

Bern · #2 05-30-2006, 05:53 PM

The great thing about digital music is that you can slow it down it keep the pitch. I suggest, get some software (it's very inexpensive) and start transcribing.

jhm-614 · #3 05-30-2006, 06:33 PM

Bern's got the right idea there... I've used "The Amazing Slowdowner" in the past and it works pretty well http://www.ronimusic.com/ It comes in both Mac and PC flavors

I've also heard that there's a free plugin for WinAmp that will do the same thing.

12stringhack · #4 05-31-2006, 06:03 AM

Thanks. I wasn't aware of products like these. I have a Boomerang that will do a 50% reduction in speed while maintaining proper pitch.

Accurate Midi to music notation software still seems to be science fiction. Anyone used a product that transcribes automatically? And works?

"I'm sorry, Dave, but I'm afraid I can't open the pod bay doors for you."

Bern · #5 05-31-2006, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12stringhack

Thanks. I wasn't aware of products like these. I have a Boomerang that will do a 50% reduction in speed while maintaining proper pitch.

Accurate Midi to music notation software still seems to be science fiction. Anyone used a product that transcribes automatically? And works?

"I'm sorry, Dave, but I'm afraid I can't open the pod bay doors for you."

I've been using Overture by Genie Soft. I like it very much. Also, you could use BIAB, which is also very good. I know Jim Tozier uses Finale, which he likes. I suggest, download demos and find out for yourself which program will fit your needs.

rhubarb · #6 05-31-2006, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhm-614

Bern's got the right idea there... I've used "The Amazing Slowdowner" in the past and it works pretty well http://www.ronimusic.com/ It comes in both Mac and PC flavors

I've also heard that there's a free plugin for WinAmp that will do the same thing.

+1
I use a similar product; I think Garage Band will do this also (if you have a Mac). Also, Tascam makes a CD player that will do the same thing.

Most of these will either slow down without changing pitch, or transpose keys without changing tempo.

Scott

12stringhack · #7 05-31-2006, 12:13 PM

Any software that can import wav or MP3 and generate standard music notation?

Bob Womack · #8 05-31-2006, 01:07 PM

Frankly, I don't use any of that stuff. When I got started (and yes, dinos DID roam the earth) we didn't have that poop. You could half-speed a record (and banjo players did) but I didn't think of that. Instead, I and most successful pop, rock, and folk musicians, trained ourselves to memorize tunes in detail and learned to play them back in our own little minds without a tape, even slowed down. Virtual memorization and recall of this sort is a wonderful thing. I'm not sure you'll ever be intimately familiar with a piece without it.

With it, you can begin breaking down a piece of music as you lie in bed, for instance, which I've done. Stuck waiting for a ride or a client? Playback a piece and analyze how the parts fit together. It works really well for
polyphony and Barogue counterpoint with all the passing tones.

Bob

ljguitar · #9 05-31-2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bob Womack

...Frankly, I don't use any of that stuff.
...Virtual memorization and recall of this sort is a wonderful thing. I'm not sure you'll ever be intimately familiar with a piece without it.

Ya' know Bobby Boy...
It's a good thing deese youth-fulls around here have we di-nos to keep 'em on track.

Listen up youngsters...
We called it ''ear training'' in college. How hard can it be? There are only 12 semitones per octave, and we have ears and guitars...match it up! I used to sit by the radio with my accordian on waiting for my favorite hit songs to come on and then I had homemade staff paper to write notes down with.

And if the keys were too tough...I transposed it in my head. Get with the program and wean yourself from the crutches. You will be better musicians for it. I use Amazing SlowDowner when I absolutely have to transcribe something letter perfect, but lead parts - I don't usually want to copy them note for note.

Bern · #10 05-31-2006, 05:57 PM

Larry & Bob,
I'm kind of surprised by your responses. Today, we have so many wonderful aids to assist us in making music. Why would you put a slant on this technology ? Hmm... Slowing down music with available software, IMO, is a wonderful tool. It actually give you opportunity to play things you might have ordinarily missed.
It surely beats scratching up the old vinyls.

Tom S. · #11 05-31-2006, 09:33 PM

Just guessing, but the old way might also make you a better musician. I sort of like some of each. Nothing like the Slowdowner to dissect a very odd strum pattern that I can't get any other way. On the other hand, hearing a 2m chord without seeing the music is rather useful in a pinch.

ljguitar · #12 05-31-2006, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bern

...Slowing down music with available software, IMO, is a wonderful tool. It actually give you opportunity to play things you might have ordinarily missed.

Hi Bern...
Why would you be surprised. I own Amazing SlowDowner, and even recommend it to students, but my philosophy of music runs counter-current to exact knock-offs so naturally I'd recommend for people to train their ears to collect, process, and regurgitate music, and then mangle, rearrange, and make it theirs.

I was at a seminar being shared with a rock star guitarist who joined a big band in the 70s. I forget who he was...but I never forgot his point. He went into studio with them almost as soon as he joined the band, and had done some wonderful solos on the album.

After the first concert fans came to him and told him how poorly he had done, and that he hadn't gotten even one solo right! They were of course referring to his improvised solos from the album which he had improvised again for the concert differently.

Because of fan pressure night after night, he had to go back and learn his improvised solos note-for-note and he said he was never so happy for the end of a tour - he was bored to death on stage.

Slow down tools are great for putting us in the ball park, and our brains and creativity are for knocking it out of the ball park.

Bern · #13 05-31-2006, 11:28 PM

Larry, we're thinking in opposite directions here (it wouldn't be the first time

). The slowdown software is a great tool for studying different performers and their approaches to improvisation and technique. I'm not suggesting to merely use it for the sake of copying somebody, but to learn with the aid of it. For example, I don't know if you ever have gotten into analyzing any jazz performances by some of the legendary players (not only guitar), because the different improvisational approaches to the same tunes are quite interesting and a learning experience. The bottom line is it makes easier and you'll waste less time.

ljguitar · #14 05-31-2006, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bern

...it makes easier and you'll waste less time.

Hi Bern...
I'd rather own the DVD and study their styles repeatedly. And I do just that...my collection of guitar DVDs is growing monthly.

Freeze frame is better for harvesting chord voicings than audio any day. I don't personally find it faster to learn by slowing music down. I do find it useful for analyzing underlying chord structure.

Also, the Amazing Slowdowner can speed things up, and that is useful for learning the form of a recorded song. At 400% increase, you can really zip through form without skipping through a piece like so many DVD players do when in high speed mode. They only ''land'' & toss you a sound every few seconds whereas the slow down software when speeded up plays all the notes.

Bob Womack · #15 06-01-2006, 06:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bern

Larry & Bob,
I'm kind of surprised by your responses. Today, we have so many wonderful aids to assist us in making music. Why would you put a slant on this technology ? Hmm... Slowing down music with available software, IMO, is a wonderful tool. It actually give you opportunity to play things you might have ordinarily missed.
It surely beats scratching up the old vinyls.

Put a slant? No. Technology is largely neutral. I just think there are some things in life that come better the hard way. Memory manipulation is definitely one of those. Altzheimer's research people will tell you that your brain needs to be exercised like your muscles. The yield of the method is an ability to stream in stuff and analyze it rather quickly.

There are results to every method you use. Low tech has a steep learning curve but leaves you with onboard tools. High-tech gets you the results quickly but often leaves you with no onboard tools. As a recording engineer and a teacher of engineers I find this to be true. Those who have been forced to do it in the analog world with no visualisations and with all sorts of signal-matching impediments, and have excelled in that environment, end up with a stronger intuitive grasp of audio than those who grow up in the workstation world. Funny but true. Adversity truly appears to breed strength.

Bob