What can go wrong with carbon fiber guitar?

[DDW]

Things can happen to a carbon guitar. Mine was in for a neck straightening when the shop burned. As described to me, the procedure was to remove the fingerboard, fixture the neck straight, add a layer of carbon and reattach the fingerboard. This was apparently a problem on that particular model in early production years. Not standard luthier work but not that far afield either.

The experience proved beyond a doubt that carbon guitars are not fireproof.

[Todd S]

Originally Posted by DDW

Mine was in for a neck straightening when the shop burned...

Igniting businesses on fire is not a side effect I would've guessed!

I have heard of an epoxy melting issue once (here on this board) with a dark-colored CF guitar that was left exposed to direct sunlight in very high temperatures.

-T

[brainfertilizer]

Originally Posted by DDW

Things can happen to a carbon guitar. Mine was in for a neck straightening when the shop burned. As described to me, the procedure was to remove the fingerboard, fixture the neck straight, add a layer of carbon and reattach the fingerboard. This was apparently a problem on that particular model in early production years. Not standard luthier work but not that far afield either.

The experience proved beyond a doubt that carbon guitars are not fireproof.

they absolutely are not.
I didn't answer this before because I have no idea if it is accurate.
When I purchased a CA Cargo, it had some barely visible hairline cracks at the base. not open, no movement or buzzing. In fact, when it arrived, I could barely see them.
I asked the Guitar Center rep, and they said that if you need to repair a carbon fiber crack, you heat up the body beyond normal earth ambient temperatures (like well over 200 degrees? dunno. apparently not enough to burn, but much higher than if you leave it in your car in a desert), so that the epoxy does soften, and then you add more epoxy to seal the crack.

But then, it seems like you *could* just seal a crack with a clear epoxy without heating it up either. Like bondo on a car?

I think the heating up is just to give you a better chance of smoothing and blending. Dunno.

I'd love to see what the Carbon Fiber version of Willie Nelson's Trigger ends up looking like, and what gets done along the way to keep it going, if even necessary.

[fpuhan]

When KLŌS first entered the CF guitar market, one of their advertising vids showed a guitar being run over by an automobile -- without any damage to it (the guitar, I mean, not the car), having a concrete block dropped on it, being used as a canoe paddle, and more, all without harming the guitar.

At the beginning, their bodies were carbon fiber but the necks were wood (with a CF truss rod). I have traveled and played mine so much that like many 'veteran' guitars, I've developed worn spots on the fret wood! KLŌS now offers guitars will CF necks, too.

I rotate guitars when I feel like I want a change. My CF guitar is always sitting out at the ready. Oh yeah, I don't worry about humidity, either!

[tbeltrans]

Q: What can go wrong with carbon fiber guitar?

A: Well, over time the "open up" and begin to sound like old growth, quarter sawn Brazilian rose wood and then you have to sell it and hope the buyer doesn't notice that it doesn't sound like a brand new instrument anymore.

Honest! I read it somewhere on the internet, or maybe I misunderstood.



Tony

[Earl49]

Yeah, I often joke that my CF guitars will “open up” in a couple thousand years — and I plan to be here to see it happen.

[martingitdave]

Carbon fiber like wood is not indestructible. And, some CF guitars have fiberglass in their formula. The best sounding CF guitar I've played is made by McPhereson - the Sable. But, it's not light, and it's braced like wood to prevent imploding. I've bought two used Rainsong "hybrid" with carbon and fiberglass. Both had geometry problems which could not be solved. They are not immune to abuse by abusive owners. Careful owners will not have a problem.

[SpruceTop]

Let me expand on what Dave has mentioned: Other than not fussing too much over temperature and humidity, treat your carbon guitars in the same manner you would treat your fine all-solid-wood guitars--GENTLY!

[tbeltrans]

Originally Posted by Earl49

Yeah, I often joke that my CF guitars will “open up” in a couple thousand years — and I plan to be here to see it happen.

Depending on what belief system you subscribe to, you just might be.

Tony

[DDW]

Originally Posted by brainfertilizer

they absolutely are not.
I didn't answer this before because I have no idea if it is accurate.
When I purchased a CA Cargo, it had some barely visible hairline cracks at the base. not open, no movement or buzzing. In fact, when it arrived, I could barely see them.
I asked the Guitar Center rep, and they said that if you need to repair a carbon fiber crack, you heat up the body beyond normal earth ambient temperatures (like well over 200 degrees? dunno. apparently not enough to burn, but much higher than if you leave it in your car in a desert), so that the epoxy does soften, and then you add more epoxy to seal the crack.

Epoxy has a "glassing" temperature, above which it becomes pliable again, somewhere in the 160 - 250 deg range depending on the epoxy. This isn't an endlessly reversing process, but it is possible to heat epoxy laminate and tweak the shape and have it stay that way when it cools. It will not self repair cracks, nor as far as I know help cross linking of new to old epoxy. The body and neck could be repaired using normal composite repair techniques, though if it has a nice undisturbed clear weave finish you will not duplicate that (but can repair from the backside if accessible). However the soundboard would be very hard to repair as any repair is going to change it properties, stiffness and mass.

I know this stuff from composite boat and aircraft construction.

[codecontra]

I had a CA Cargo that fell over on a carpeted floor and the fretboard popped off near the nut. Luckily Peavey fixed it for free under warranty. I am not sure a normal luthier would have known what type of glue or epoxy to use.

A recent forum member said his Rainsong had developed a warped sound hole. Doubt this can be fixed by a typical luthier.

Any body or structural damage caused by dropping and accidents might be difficult to repair. Further, I do not believe any current CF maker would take in any guitar but their own.

So yeah things can happen, but probably somewhat rare. Anecdotally, most people here seem to have had their CF guitars for years without issue.

[Nama Ensou]

Originally Posted by KarenB

I'm asking, because in case I buy one and the company goes out of business, how do you get the guitar fixed?

Just for another point of view applicable to what your concerns are, I'm not sure that I've ever sent anything to the manufacturer for any more than a couple of times, and guitars, never.

[Aspiring]

Originally Posted by codecontra

I had a CA Cargo that fell over on a carpeted floor and the fretboard popped off near the nut. Luckily Peavey fixed it for free under warranty. I am not sure a normal luthier would have known what type of glue or epoxy to use.



A recent forum member said his Rainsong had developed a warped sound hole. Doubt this can be fixed by a typical luthier.



Any body or structural damage caused by dropping and accidents might be difficult to repair. Further, I do not believe any current CF maker would take in any guitar but their own.



So yeah things can happen, but probably somewhat rare. Anecdotally, most people here seem to have had their CF guitars for years without issue.

While typical guitar repair shops may not have much experience with composite repair there are lots that do. As mentioned above marine and other industries do a lot of it.

Repairing the body or neck for structural damage should be something that can be done pretty easily at most of those shops. The sound board would be the one area that would take more expertise to fix.

That said it also takes a lot more to damage a CF guitar.

[KarenB]

Thanks everyone for you insights and knowledge!

[Markcarl]

Originally Posted by jricc

Hi Karen, the CF's are ready for pretty much anything. This was earlier tonight in 30 degree temps, handled it easy. Stayed in tune, no shrinking wood , sharp frets etc. Handles the humidity in the summer too. She goes to my tech once a year for minimal maintenance, fret level, polish and that's after 90-100 gigs a year.

I recognize that Rainsong Shorty guitar! I have the same - a CHOM1000NS. I got it used around 5 years ago and it has been a great guitar.