ToneDexter - The Holy Grail!

[dcopper]

I just sent an email to James May asking the same thing.

[Cuki79]

I think you can do it with Logic space designer. (If I remember well Doug Young did it this way with his Tonedexter)

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniq...ics-ir-utility

Altiverb can do it too.

[dcopper]

that looks pretty intimidating...although I have no doubt Cuki is right about using that software.

I was wondering if you can transfer the IR you create in the TD to the SD card and then from the SD card into the HX Stomp.

[Skip Ellis]

No offense to those who love it, but why not just use the $399 for a decent microphone and forget about the cheesy acoustic pickups because none of them sound like a guitar (IMHO) anyway. I might become more interested if Tony Rice or Norman Blake started using one but I don't see that happening any time soon. Maybe I'm just old and in the way, but I think an acoustic guitar should be an acoustic guitar - no wires, preamps, gizmos or batteries. I think folks nowadays spend too much time messing with gimmicks and trying to sound like somebody else when they should be putting in time on the instrument. Don't mean to start something but that's just my, admittedly, dinosaur take on the subject. I listened to Doug Young's (and he's a great player) demo on the website and honestly could not tell $399 worth of difference between the before and after, and, if you factor in the vagaries of different noisy venues full of drunks, I just don't see the point. As always, YMMV.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by Skip Ellis

No offense to those who love it, but why not just use the $399 for a decent microphone and forget about the cheesy acoustic pickups because none of them sound like a guitar (IMHO) anyway.

If your playing environment allows it, a mic is the best option - nothing comes close. A mic is also the worst possible option when the environment isn't right. People use pickups for a reason - there are just too many gigs where mics won't cut it. I prefer to avoid those gigs, myself, I like to play 1) totally acoustic, 2) thru a great PA with a mic, and dead last 3) using a pickup. Well actually, dead, dead last 4) a noisy place where no one can hear anyway. But for many gigs, pickups are the only viable option, and that's the kind of gigs many people play. I get that in a noisy bar, you might very well say "who cares, no one can hear it anyway", but you can hear it - so even in that case, ToneDexter might just make you happier on stage, even if the audience is oblivious.

My demo of ToneDexter could have been better from the standpoint of dramatizing what it can do. I started with a pickup that sounds pretty good - the Trance. It improves the Trance, but it's somewhat subtle. Where I've heard jaw-dropping differences are with more common pickups like many undersaddles, where I've heard the change go from a cringe-worthy sound (raw pickup), to near-mic sound with TD. I just don't own any guitars with bad sounding pickups to use as a starting point, so I demo'd what I had.

[gfirob]

I think the most jaw-dropping demonstration of the Tonedexter really comes when you listen to the device training and the sound of your pickup improving in real time right in front of you. Then you can A and B the treated and untreated pickup signal. When I have done this with other players, showing them the Tonedexter at work, the response is always just amazement, real astonishment, even for those who were skeptical. Of course, you need a Tonedexter to make this demonstration.

Everybody knows the sound of your guitar is going sound the best amplified through a microphone, but there are many situation in which this option is not available or not going to work.

I know the Tonedexter is not ideal for every player in every situation, but there is no other device that I have tried that gets anywhere close to improving a pickup's sound (K&K's in my case) to the point that it very nearly sounds like that same guitar through a microphone. Nothing comes close IMHO.

[guitaniac]

Silly me, I'm still hoping to get better-than-my-guitar-miked-live sounds off a pickup. If we were to mic a Fender American Acoustasonic Telecaster at a live show, I bet it would quickly become obvious that Fishman has already done that with room to spare.

Tonight I'll be testing out a cool WaveMap that I came up with for a $110 ebay guitar. Here's hoping to be surprised.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Skip Ellis

No offense to those who love it, but why not just use the $399 for a decent microphone and forget about the cheesy acoustic pickups because none of them sound like a guitar (IMHO) anyway. I might become more interested if Tony Rice or Norman Blake started using one but I don't see that happening any time soon. Maybe I'm just old and in the way, but I think an acoustic guitar should be an acoustic guitar - no wires, preamps, gizmos or batteries. I think folks nowadays spend too much time messing with gimmicks and trying to sound like somebody else when they should be putting in time on the instrument. Don't mean to start something but that's just my, admittedly, dinosaur take on the subject. I listened to Doug Young's (and he's a great player) demo on the website and honestly could not tell $399 worth of difference between the before and after, and, if you factor in the vagaries of different noisy venues full of drunks, I just don't see the point. As always, YMMV.

It definitely is an old school approach. The problem is that this type of set up just doesn't work in about 90% of the settings out there. To top it off, sound men now don't expect players to show up and ask for a mic. It's not really the climate of music anymore. Using only a mic would be a nightmare in most bars, pubs and especially with a drummer. I know you see pickups and preamps as gimmicks that a lot of players waste their time on but to be fair, learning to use a microphone set up live can take just as much time, money and commitment and the results will likely be disappointing and difficult.

[Skip Ellis]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

It definitely is an old school approach. The problem is that this type of set up just doesn't work in about 90% of the settings out there. To top it off, sound men now don't expect players to show up and ask for a mic. It's not really the climate of music anymore. Using only a mic would be a nightmare in most bars, pubs and especially with a drummer. I know you see pickups and preamps as gimmicks that a lot of players waste their time on but to be fair, learning to use a microphone set up live can take just as much time, money and commitment and the results will likely be disappointing and difficult.

What's a 'sound man'? I've been doing this for 50+ years and never played a venue with a sound man. Is this just in big cities?

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by Skip Ellis

What's a 'sound man'? I've been doing this for 50+ years and never played a venue with a sound man. Is this just in big cities?

In my limited experience with venues that have a PA and someone to operate it (hard to avoid at festivals and fairs), I always end up wishing I could just set up our own equipment.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Skip Ellis

What's a 'sound man'? I've been doing this for 50+ years and never played a venue with a sound man. Is this just in big cities?

You can find sound men really anywhere. They are basically hired to mix the sound out front for bands/performers. Every major touring band has one that travels with them. Not every bar will have one but venues that care about their sound typically hire one. The venue I play has a capacity of around 300 people (maybe more) and every Friday/Saturday they have the same hired sound man who sets up the mics and DI's and mixes us out front. The whole process takes about 20 minutes. I have also played festivals with sound men as well.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

In my limited experience with venues that have a PA and someone to operate it (hard to avoid at festivals and fairs), I always end up wishing I could just set up our own equipment.

This hasn't been my experience oddly enough. Maybe I have just been lucky but the sound men I have dealt with have all been super nice and helpful. Honestly, not having to bring my pa or mics and having a sound check that takes about 15 minutes is just too good to pass up. My only real complaint is that at some noisy bars, the sound man will eq an acoustic to sound hi-fi. They basically strip out the bass and make it cut through the crowd. Out front it sounds fantastic but on stage it can be a bit thin. It's a small compromise though.

[shufflebeat]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

...My only real complaint is that at some noisy bars, the sound man will eq an acoustic to sound hi-fi. They basically strip out the bass and make it cut through the crowd. Out front it sounds fantastic but on stage it can be a bit thin. It's a small compromise though.

I'm pretty sure you're aware of this, but I'll say it anyway for the sake of the discussion. That is easily remedied with a small powered speaker hooked up to the 1/4" output jack on the TD, or any other decent preamp/DI.

[Uncle Pauhana]

Some of the best “sound men” I’ve known have been women. “Sound man” is a pretty darn outdated term. I just say “sound tech”, usually.

.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Uncle Pauhana

Some of the best “sound men” I’ve known have been women. “Sound man” is a pretty darn outdated term. I just say “sound tech”, usually.

.

Let's not start that up.. I was simply using the generic term that everyone uses. I wasn't trying to be sexist. I personally have never had a woman do sound for me but if I did, I probably still would say "sound man". It's just part of the vocabulary.