Yet another ES review

smitty · #1 05-08-2004, 02:41 PM

I have a W-14c with a LR Baggs RT system installed. It sounds great....no problems. I had a 514c also with the same p/u. I since traded in the 514c for an 814ce with ES system. I thought it would be great if not better the than the LR Baggs. The guitar played great but when I plugged it in at the gig......well let's just say it wasn't what I expected. The tone was kinda filtered sounding. As if the mids were cranked. I tried tweeking the treble and bass knobs. Negative........ So I thought it was me. I went back to Sam Ash to try another model with the ES........The same sound ..........Very odd. It wasn't natural at all. No where close to the Baggs. So My plan is to order a 714c w/o the electronics and install the Baggs. I really hope it doen't take too long. But it's not as if I didn't have another guitar. Somebody else will probably like the sound of the ES but it didn't thrill me. Oh well.....

Brackett Instruments · #2 05-08-2004, 02:48 PM

So you're describing the ES sound "coffee cannish" Yep that pretty well sums it up for me, but that's because you and I don't know how a guitar should sound.

Shiftin · #3 05-08-2004, 02:50 PM

were you plugging it into an acoustic amp?

Serenity · #4 05-08-2004, 02:53 PM

The only time I've heard an ES system was at a Taylor clinic given by Wendy Waldman about a week ago. It was plugged into a fairly simple mixing board and then into two powered speakers. I'm no expert on sound systems for music but frankly I thought it sounded great.

Seems like a matter of taste from what I've read, more than anything else.

WilsonMak · #5 05-08-2004, 02:53 PM

I just use my es with my electric amp thtough a 1/4 cable...it sounds fine with me...am i missing any sound by not using the proper setup?

Shiftin · #6 05-08-2004, 04:10 PM

If you read the old posts by Bob Taylor, ES was designed basically with the "acoustic amp preamp" built in. I know don't the proper terminology, but follow me.

ES is going to sound the best plugged straight into a soundboard, not an acoustic amp. Most acoustic amps right now are voiced for piezo crystal pickups and color the sound to make up for the way piezo crystals work.

ES works differently and already sends a good sounding signal out of your guitar. When you plug that signal into an acoustic amp, the amp is making up for a problem that doesn't exist, so you probably won't be very impressed by the ES. The amp is distorting the way ES really sounds clean.

Example: my 2000 514ce sounds good out of the guitar jack in my crate CA 120 and "limp" (as i describe it) out of the microphone jack. I've plugged an ES 514ce into the same amp and it sounds fantastic out of the mic jack and a little unnatural out of the guitar side.

To address you directly smitty, if you have an amp that you can bypass the coloration on, get an ES system or at least try one the way it was designed. If your amp is voiced for a piezo pickup and you don't have plans to buy another amp or play any other way, stick with your plan.

As a side note, Taylor is helping several amp companies (who realize that ES type systems are the future ) to create amps that function better with the pure signal ES provides.

Brackett Instruments · #7 05-08-2004, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiftin

If you read the old posts by Bob Taylor, ES was designed basically with the "acoustic amp preamp" built in. I know don't the proper terminology, but follow me.

ES is going to sound the best plugged straight into a soundboard, not an acoustic amp. Most acoustic amps right now are voiced for piezo crystal pickups and color the sound to make up for the way piezo crystals work.

ES works differently and already sends a good sounding signal out of your guitar. When you plug that signal into an acoustic amp, the amp is making up for a problem that doesn't exist, so you probably won't be very impressed by the ES. The amp is distorting the way ES really sounds clean.

Example: my 2000 514ce sounds good out of the guitar jack in my crate CA 120 and "limp" (as i describe it) out of the microphone jack. I've plugged an ES 514ce into the same amp and it sounds fantastic out of the mic jack and a little unnatural out of the guitar side.

To address you directly smitty, if you have an amp that you can bypass the coloration on, get an ES system or at least try one the way it was designed. If your amp is voiced for a piezo pickup and you don't have plans to buy another amp or play any other way, stick with your plan.

As a side note, Taylor is helping several amp companies (who realize that ES type systems are the future ) to create amps that function better with the pure signal ES provides.

So is this wonderful good sounding output from the ES is why Taylor now wants us to buy a K-4? It's like I said before smitty, we don't know what a guitar should sound like.

Scotto · #8 05-08-2004, 05:32 PM

i think you'll be most happy plugging your ES guitar into a PA system. the Microphone channel on almost any other amp would be probably a good second choice. I have a Carvin AG100D and it sounds good on either the guitar or the mic channel. The only diference is that I seem to get alot more volume from the guitar channel. I have a fender Acoustasonic SFX but I havent been using it much since I got the Carvin

JohnZ · #9 05-08-2004, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotto

i think you'll be most happy plugging your ES guitar into a PA system. the Microphone channel on almost any other amp would be probably a good second choice. I have a Carvin AG100D and it sounds good on either the guitar or the mic channel. The only diference is that I seem to get alot more volume from the guitar channel. I have a fender Acoustasonic SFX but I havent been using it much since I got the Carvin

That Carvin amp saves the day for me at least once a week, I can't believe what it's gone through. One thing though, if you use a wireless, DO NOT EVER turn it off at the transmitter, only the reciever first, the Carvin goes nuts.

Shiftin · #10 05-08-2004, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woody b

So is this wonderful good sounding output from the ES is why Taylor now wants us to buy a K-4? It's like I said before smitty, we don't know what a guitar should sound like.

a. you seem pretty bitter about something...

b. if you have ears, you know what your acoustic guitar should ideally sound like plugged in - exactly like it sounds like naturally but louder. all the K4 does is give you a viable option to further customize the ES sound (like you would have on an acoustic amp). i'm sure as smart as the folks over at taylor are, they know as soon as the amp companies catch up to this next generation of amplification and start making amps for non-piezo pickups the k4 will be obsolete.

masmith · #11 05-08-2004, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smitty

I have a W-14c with a LR Baggs RT system installed. It sounds great....no problems. I had a 514c also with the same p/u. I since traded in the 514c for an 814ce with ES system. I thought it would be great if not better the than the LR Baggs. The guitar played great but when I plugged it in at the gig......well let's just say it wasn't what I expected. The tone was kinda filtered sounding. As if the mids were cranked. I tried tweeking the treble and bass knobs. Negative........ So I thought it was me. I went back to Sam Ash to try another model with the ES........The same sound ..........Very odd. It wasn't natural at all. No where close to the Baggs. So My plan is to order a 714c w/o the electronics and install the Baggs. I really hope it doen't take too long. But it's not as if I didn't have another guitar. Somebody else will probably like the sound of the ES but it didn't thrill me. Oh well.....

HMMMM. 2nd post on the forum entitled yet another ES review. Also practiaclly an advertisment for LR Baggs, smitty- where do you work?

Fngrstyl · #12 05-08-2004, 10:03 PM

I haven't heard an ES that didn't have a HOT B and E... That's what bums me out about ES. It isn't as balanced as some other systems out there, IMO.

smitty · #13 05-08-2004, 10:40 PM

I play through a PA system. A QSC 2450 power amp with a Mackie 12 channel mixer. And two Yamaha S-12 speakers. So the system is very clean. I would love to like the ES. The concept is perfect with all those sensors. But I tried guitars......an 814, 714, 514, and they all had the same sound. Kinda hollow. Now if this is how it's supposed to sound......ok I really like the 714. I think it's a good companion to my W-14. I'm not saying the ES system stinks by all means. It just didn't move me. Oh for the record I've also heard some bad reviews of the LR Baggs. So you can't please everyone.

lsummers · #14 05-08-2004, 11:30 PM

Another thing you might want to check is where the tonal control knobs on the mixer where set. The best thing that I've seen, heard and experienced with the ES is to have them in what's called the "flat" position or "12 o'clock." If the tones on the mixer are "flat" then you should be able to adjust the tones on your guitar to obtain the sound you're looking for. I've found that if the mixer is "colored" the ES sound will tend to be kind of "hollow".

Like many others have already said...the best way to get the "true ES sound" is to plug into an amp that does not color sound (Srawberry Blonde or California Blonde by SWR, or an Ultrasound) or a PA.

I hope you can give it another try and make it work for you 'cause it's made a world of difference for me. But if, in the end, you don't find that the ES is the best system that works for you, that's cool too...as long as you are satisfied with what ever method you choose to obtain optimal sound, that's all that matters.

Good Luck.

lsummers · #15 05-09-2004, 12:15 AM

I just thought of this while I was lying in bed and had to add it because it could be a big issue...when it comes to cords: make sure you are using the ES cable that came with your guitar (the one with the XLR/mic end), or at least a stereo cable or one that supports a balanced signal. NOT your standard guitar cord that only supports a "mono" signal. If you use just a normal guitar cable then you will not be getting the full potential out of the ES because it's signal is a balanced one. Therefore you might end up with a dull or "hollow" signal.