12's on a 12 string E standard

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by guitar344

How long will the guitar last? Might be fine to leave it for a week.

Unfortunately, many reply posts are not addressing the OP's question.

My recommendation is not to try this. Light gauge 12-string sets have the high E strings at 0.010" dia. In other words, they are "10s," not "12s." 12-strings sets with 12s are considered heavy, not light gauge. These heavier gauge sets are designed to be used on 12-strings tuned to C, 4 half-tones below normal concert pitch.

I don't think even the manufacturers of 12-strings could tell you how long a 12-string might hold up with a set of heavy gauge strings (that is, 12s) on a good 12-string. It would probably vary with the instrument. Some might be okay for a few hours, some might be okay for two weeks. Without experimentation on a group of 12-strings, nobody will know the answer to your question.

However, history tells us that tuning a 12-string up to standard pitch with 12s on it generally results in damage to the guitar over time. That time span to reach damage will vary with the individual guitar.

Why take this risk? To get a particular sound, I would guess. My opinion is that it's not worth the risk unless you have money to burn.

- Glenn

[jseth]

I've owned my Mark Angus #58 12 string since it was built in 1983... for the first couple years, I wouldn't keep it tuned to concert pitch (per Mark's recommendation); I'd tune it up to pitch and then de-tune when I through playing for the day...

Well, THAT got old, really fast, and in ~1985, I started keeping it tuned to pitch. At first, I kept a very close eye on it, looking for any signs of stress damage (neck, top, bridge, etc.), but after nothing weird had happened for a couple years, I just "set it and forget it"...

About 9 years ago, I had this feeling that the guitar was sounding kind of thin and wimpy... I checked the gauge of the strings I had been using and realized that somewhere back down the line, the powers-that-be apparently decided that light gauge for a 12 string were 11's... since then I've had the guitar strung with 12's and tuned to pitch... no issues with any structural damage from that.

I'm actually at the point of putting 11's back on it, due to my hands and wrists just not "liking" dealing with 12's!

[DCCougar]

10's are recommended for 12-strings. 12's are not. My 2002 JF30-12 has always had 10's at standard pitch and is doing just fine. (Well, better than fine, actually. )

[Rodger Knox]

As everyone has said, it depends on the guitar. Here's how to evaluate what it will do to your guitar.
A guitar should have about 2° of bridge rotation due to string tension. Attach a laser pointer to the bridge with the guitar anchored solidly in place with the strings tuned to pitch. Mark the position of the laser pointer on the wall. Loosen the strings without moving the guitar and measure the difference of the laser pointer on the wall(A) and measure the distance from the wall to the bridge(B). The angle is arctan(A/B). Heavier strings produce more rotation.

[guitar344]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Unfortunately, many reply posts are not addressing the OP's question.

My recommendation is not to try this. Light gauge 12-string sets have the high E strings at 0.010" dia. In other words, they are "10s," not "12s." 12-strings sets with 12s are considered heavy, not light gauge. These heavier gauge sets are designed to be used on 12-strings tuned to C, 4 half-tones below normal concert pitch.

I don't think even the manufacturers of 12-strings could tell you how long a 12-string might hold up with a set of heavy gauge strings (that is, 12s) on a good 12-string. It would probably vary with the instrument. Some might be okay for a few hours, some might be okay for two weeks. Without experimentation on a group of 12-strings, nobody will know the answer to your question.

However, history tells us that tuning a 12-string up to standard pitch with 12s on it generally results in damage to the guitar over time. That time span to reach damage will vary with the individual guitar.

Why take this risk? To get a particular sound, I would guess. My opinion is that it's not worth the risk unless you have money to burn.

- Glenn

12-52 is medium 13-56 is heavy. Ghs warns their set of 13's is not meant for standard. https://www.elderly.com/products/ghs...-12-string-set . No way with 13's 12's maybe.

[leew3]

if the OP question is sincerely "how long will it last?" I'd say, try it and let us know. Given the advice of nearly everyone so far (add mine to the 'don't do it' chorus) we know how it will end. The question is how long before the crash.

[Zigeuner]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Unfortunately, many reply posts are not addressing the OP's question.

My recommendation is not to try this. Light gauge 12-string sets have the high E strings at 0.010" dia. In other words, they are "10s," not "12s." 12-strings sets with 12s are considered heavy, not light gauge. These heavier gauge sets are designed to be used on 12-strings tuned to C, 4 half-tones below normal concert pitch.

I don't think even the manufacturers of 12-strings could tell you how long a 12-string might hold up with a set of heavy gauge strings (that is, 12s) on a good 12-string. It would probably vary with the instrument. Some might be okay for a few hours, some might be okay for two weeks. Without experimentation on a group of 12-strings, nobody will know the answer to your question.

However, history tells us that tuning a 12-string up to standard pitch with 12s on it generally results in damage to the guitar over time. That time span to reach damage will vary with the individual guitar.

Why take this risk? To get a particular sound, I would guess. My opinion is that it's not worth the risk unless you have money to burn.

- Glenn

Certainly agree. It's sort of a moot point for me. I love to hear a 12 string that's been tuned down. I long ago bonded with players like Leadbelly, Leo Kottke, Dick Rozmini, Fred Gerlach and even Pete Seeger with their low 12 string guitar tunng.

Sure, some guitars can be tuned to pitch with 12's and last a long time - but why? The real 12 string sound is from a tuned down instrument.

Here's a interesting artlcle about Leo Kottke.

http://www.guitarmusic.org/kottke/gwss95.html

[zombywoof]

Originally Posted by Zigeuner

Sure, some guitars can be tuned to pitch with 12's and last a long time - but why? The real 12 string sound is from a tuned down instrument.

Here's a interesting artlcle about Leo Kottke.

According to this interview from '77 the key to a 12 string for Kottke was an ADJ saddle bridge.

http://www.guitarmusic.org/kottke/ggpa773.html