New Taylor NS24ce! Questions...

[LDBecker]

First post -
Went looking for an inexpensive nylon string guitar to supplement my Martin dreadnought steel, and was soon disappointed with what I played. Almost went with a Cordoba GK (and it would have been fine, I'm sure), but made the mistake of playing a Taylor NS24ce. Fell in love... no choice... The fit, finish, playability and sound were so much more what I was looking for.

Reading up on these, I KNOW it's "Indian Rosewood laminate," and made in Mexico - but WOW is this a nice guitar! The sound is really marvelous - not as loud or flamboyant and the Cordobas or others - more controlled, more refined (IMHO), and sounds really great plugged in. The intonation is really good, the playability for my hands is about what I need (still will take some getting used to), and the looks - just great. What a bargain - I couldn't believe this guitar was selling for under $xxx.

I bought it at the local GC near me (Lawndale, CA) and they "pricematched" a mailorder competitor to save me tax, I guess... I didn't like the flimsy Taylor gig bag that they gave me with it, so I went back and exchanged it for the Taylor "hard gig bag," which is fine (cost me another $13 to trade up, but that's ok-seems fair). I'm used to hardshell cases, but this should be ok - I don't travel much with it and it's a bit lighter.

Couple of questions... I'm using it mostly with the Fishman SA220, which I really like (got it on close out, floor model discount at my local BB). Do any of you use a Taylor nylon with the Fishman? How do you get the best sound out of it? When I auditioned the NS24ce, it was on a little Fishman Loudbox 100 and it sounded really balanced and just perfect. On the SA220, I'm not sure I'm getting the sound I want - a little boomy. Guess I'll play with it a bit more.

Capos? I'm sorry to say I use capos quite a bit. The Kyser classical capo I bought (I use Kysers on my Martin) seems a little buzzy. Any recommendations? I see some using the G7ths capos - any special model?

Effects? My old Yamaha AG Stomp is a bit old, outdated, and starting to act up a bit. I looked at the Fishman Spectrum Aura - not an effects box, I know, but maybe will help me find the tone I want. What about the Fishman Chorus? I really don't want to drag a lot of stuff around with me... Suggestions here?

Thanks so much,

Larry

[Play2PraiseHim]

Congratulations on the new guitar. And welcome to the forum.

[Garthman]

Congratulations on the new guitar - I hope you enjoy playing it.

IMHO the Shubb capo is just about the best available - no other capo can be adjusted with such precision.

And also IMHO, Taylor >>> Martin most of the time (but that is just MHO, of course).

[wgnorman]

I also have an NS24ce and a Fishman SoloAmp - I have not actually tweaked the settings a lot and mostly play acoustic. When I do play connected, I either play plugged directly into my Crate Gunnison, or if I use the SoloAmp, I have several K&K PWM equipped guitars so I plug the NS24ce into the K&K Pure XLR PreAmp, into an Allen & Heath mixer, then to the SoloAmp - point is, between on board controls, K&K preamp, and mixer I have many options to tweak the sound to what I like (as I said, I generally back off the the NS24's controls) - most everything I use the K&K PreAmp to adjust - the SoloAmp is basically set with everything in the middle...my other nylon I play frequently is the Takamine TC135C which has the Cool Tube 2 preamp - on that guitar, I use the on board controls a lot more to adjust.

I really like the NS24ce - great sound unplugged, IMHO, but when I was at the store, I plugged into a small amp they had in their Taylor room and thought it also has a great amplified sound. That convinced me to buy it.

As for Mexican laminate guitar - who cares? It is a nice guitar and even though most of my guitars are solid wood, I'm not an anti-laminate snob. In fact, my Martin is 100% laminate and one of the nicest playing and a great sounding guitar and even its soundboard is laminate.

[LDBecker]

PlaytoPraiseHim - thank you for the gracious welcome, Lady Toni!

Garthman - I have an old Shubb that I tried on my Martin several years ago, but it seemed a bit "fiddly" to use with precision in the heat of live song changes, and my Kyser seems to work ok and quickly, so I set it aside. Now, with the NS24ce, the Kyser I have to be more careful in placement, so I'll look into the Shubb! And I can't argue with you about the Taylor vs. Martin thing... this is my second Martin - both are far better guitars than I am a player, but I always had trouble with intonation. It was so bad my local Martin repair shop (Weswood Music) suggested a Buzz Feiten treatment on it. That helped a LOT (I know this is controversial...), but now as the frets wear, it needs a touch-up or some additional work done - sigh... The Taylor is AMAZING - I'm just really impressed at how the notes are in tune up and down the neck.

wgnorman - I can see the need to do a little tweaking with the amplified sound. I'd been using my old Yamaha AG Stomp for so long that I became acustomed to the modified chorus/reverb on my Martin - but I'm kind of sick of it... The Taylor sounds pretty sweet just as a guitar - no nonsense or chorus or whatever added. I guess I'm thinking maybe about trying out something like the Fishman Aura Spectrum to even out the tone. I JUST got the Fishman SA220 Soloamp and haven't tried it in a large, live situation. Maybe the boominess I hear when I practice will even out in the larger room? I'll rehearse with the combination in the room I normally play in (large-ish 70's style rectangular brick church, high ceiling, seats about 600, padded pews and carpet) and see...
As far as laminate guitars... I probably would shy away from them normally, but I bought it based on playability, sound, looks, finish and value - it just shines on all counts. It's more than I intended to spend (yet again), but it seems to be is a great first nylon string crossover.

Larry

[MJScott]

I may be (probably am) wrong, but the Taylor has a radiused board and the classical capo is for a flat board-that may be the reason for the buzzing. Just a thought.

Congrats on the guitar!!!

[LDBecker]

Originally Posted by MJScott

I may be (probably am) wrong, but the Taylor has a radiused board and the classical capo is for a flat board-that may be the reason for the buzzing. Just a thought.

Congrats on the guitar!!!

Ok - embarassed on a couple of counts... The fretboard IS radiused... which I knew (since it's a crossover), and when I asked the "guy" at GC about it, he said that if it's nylon stringed, it needs a classical capo... um, no. I found my old Shubb, and it works just great. Also my radiused Kyser is fine. Back we go to GC.

Also, I had mentioned that my new Fishman SA220 Soloamp sounded boomey... um, the treble control on the back was turned all the way down. I didn't remember that there was a separate control for that. I guess if that's my only issue with buying a floor model, I should be happy. I think it will be ok now.

On another issue I raised, I called Fishman about maybe using their Aura Spectrum with the Taylor NS24ce and Frank at their customer service said it really wasn't compatible with the new Taylors because Taylor nylons use a blended pickup system. First of all, what amazing customer service (he's also sending out a replacement cord for the SA220 for free)... Second, bummer - I liked the concept... Ah, well... other suggestions? I want to try to have as natural a sound as possible, minimizing the acoustic amped sound (don't know what to call it).

Thanks all so much!
Larry

[LDBecker]

So... in my quest to sort out amplified sound on the NS24ce, I came across the Taylor K4 on their website and on the web. It's been out for a while, and I haven't found many recent posts anywhere on it. It looks like the price has dropped significantly from its originally high price.

From what I can discover, this was developed to work specially with the Taylor ES pickups.

Does anyone here use the K4 on their Nylon Taylor?

Larry

[open-road-matt]

Originally Posted by LDBecker

On another issue I raised, I called Fishman about maybe using their Aura Spectrum with the Taylor NS24ce and Frank at their customer service said it really wasn't compatible with the new Taylors because Taylor nylons use a blended pickup system.

Hi Larry,
The Taylor Expression System for their steel string guitars is a dual source (i.e. blended) system that has a magnetic pickup in the neck and a few body sensors.

The pickup in the Taylor Nylon Series is called the ES-N and that is a single source, under the saddle transducer. (At least that is what I have in my NS74ce that was brand new in October and that is what Taylor is showing on their website.)

A single source, under the saddle transducer is supposed to be the best pickup to use with Fishman's Aura technology. Fishman doesn't (or at least didn't last time I checked) have any downloadable images for any of the Taylor nylon guitars but as far as I know the pickups in the Taylor nylon guitars should be quite compatible with the Aura stuff. I haven't tried it but in theory it should be OK.

Matt

[LDBecker]

Matt,
Thanks for that clarifcation. I honestly did ask Fishman about it - the tech must have heard "Taylor" and assumed the Aura technolog wasn't compatible with Taylor nylons AND the other Taylors that use the blended ES-T pickups.

Reading the Taylor info more closely, it notes that the nylon under saddle pickup is derived from their ES-T - and in the general listing for electronics on the NS24ce, it says ES-T... confusing. I think I'll get my jig saw out and open up the Taylor to see what's really in there... Ok, I won't...

I think you're right, though. But I can't find anyone who's used either the Aura technology or the K4 equalizer on a Taylor nylon.

The tone is kind of, um, wild, just plugged in to the Fishman SA220. I can tone it down a bit, but I still get a "thwak" that one doesn't hear without amps. I tried my Yamaha AG Stomp on some nylon settings - it has some mic modeling built in, but it's pretty noisey and it introduces some other interesting feedback issues...

Might just try the Fishman Aura Spectrum...

Larry

[open-road-matt]

Hi Larry,
You may want to find a Fishman dealer who has a Aura Nylon or the Spectrum in stock and bring your 24 in and see how it sounds.

I was just in Blue Guitar in San Diego, probably a bit far for you considering the traffic out there but they had a whole Aura "pedal board" set up. I didn't plug into any of them but it looked like something that would allow you to hear many of the different Aura products. Something like that might give you a chance to try them out.

The K4 is a nice unit. I had one when they first came out and you can do some nice tone shaping with it but I never tried one with a nylon. I run my NS74ce through a Radial Tonebone PZ-Pre. I don't make any adjustments with the PZ-Pre and I like the sound a bit better of the 74 going straight into the board but I switch between a guitar and an ukulele and the PZ-Pre makes that very easy.

I'm still very new to the world of nylon so I don't know that I know exactly what you are talking about when you describe the tone as "wild." I can kind of picture the "thwak" you mention though. I've been spending a lot of time working on my plugged in nylon technique. I hear things through my PA that I never hear when I'm playing unplugged.

Are you using the original strings that came with the guitar? Someone on here recommended the GHS DD2300 Doyle Dykes signature strings with a wound G. I put a set of those on and I just love them! I instantly ordered a bunch of sets. So a change of strings made a big difference for me.

I got rid of the flat pick and I'm playing with just bare fingers now and I like that a lot. My main problem has been the palm mute. That's when I get some thwaky, noise stuff that drives me nuts and I only hear it when I'm plugged in. But I keep messing with my technique and I've made several adjustments that have made a huge difference. But it's all trial and error (and practice!)

I hope that helps a bit. I've never tried a nylon through a SoloAmp (now the SA220) but I've always enjoyed my steel string tone through that amp.

Good luck!
Matt

[LDBecker]

Thanks for the response, Matt. I really appreciate the, um, feedback...
I guess the term I've read that describes how the NS24 sounded amplified through the SA220 is "quacky." Kind of fits.

By "wild," I guess I meant it felt uncontrolled, boomy and, well, quacky. I didn't really notice that when I was auditioning the amp and guitar, but when I play it in a large venue, it's just hard to listen to.

I went to my local GC - nothing on display, but some in a case. Sam Ash had the effects pedals out, but not the Aura Spectrum. Took a chance, printed out my emailed coupon from GC and bought the Spectrum.

It took a while to sort it out, download the images, and, using the Wizard, figure out which guitar approxomates my NS24. The Wizard selected a Taylor 814ce - which has the grand auditorium body - but is a steel string. Didn't realize that, but played with it a bit and - it really helped! Trying some different settings, I can really see how this thing works... The "quackiness" and "wildness" of the guitar/amp were gone, and I was able to concentrate on just playing... (Not pretty!) However, the amplified sound now sounds much more like the guitar sounds - just louder.

I'm VERY new to nylon playing, and am really not much of a solo guitarist or performer - I mostly lead worship or informal events with my Martin HD35... Time to work on technique, refine some skills and try to undo 40 years (yikes!) of a few bad playing habits. I've been playing lately with a MUCH better guitarist - and though he tends to play a very different style than I do, I've learned a bit. It's really a great challenge and help to pick up things from a semi-pro.

The nylon guitar is new to me - just a week or so - so, yes, the strings are original. I'll have to try the ones you mentioned with the wound G string.

Thanks again for your encouragement!

Larry