The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Build and Repair

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 01-26-2020, 02:41 PM
Slothead56 Slothead56 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central PA
Posts: 1,514
Default Replacing the neck on a 40+ year old Gurian

Not the worst idea I’ve ever had, but probably not the best either...

The nut on my 42 year old Gurian Jumbo Rosewood is a very thin 1 5/8”. Like many, I’ve grown accustomed to the generous 1 3/4” neck on my Martins.

How crazy would it be to have a new neck made with the more comfortable 1 3/4” nut? I really do love everything about this guitar. I can live with the skinny neck but just wondering.

Oh. I suspect that this would take a bit of Gurian knowledge as the neck is held to the body by a couple of ebony pins.

Thoughts? (Other than to tell me I’m nuts.)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-26-2020, 02:47 PM
rstaight rstaight is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Location: Lafayette Indiana
Posts: 645
Default

I feel you should look at the spacing at the bridge also. With a narrow nut you could also have narrow string spacing.

But for a 42 year old guitar I would be afraid of devaluing the guitar.

I would personally leave it alone.
__________________
2007 Indiana Scout
2018 Indiana Madison Quilt Elite
2018 Takamine GJ72CE 12-String
2019 Takamine GD93
1963 Gibson SG
2016 Kala uke
Dean A style mandolin. (Year unknown)
Lotus L80 (1984ish)
Plus a few lower end I have had for years
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-26-2020, 04:20 PM
Bill Kraus's Avatar
Bill Kraus Bill Kraus is offline
AGF Sponsor
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: western new york
Posts: 397
Default

You may want to contact Mr. Gurian, unless I am mistaken he has stepped away from his company that has supplied guitar makers with parts for many decades, and gone back to building guitars. Seeing as though he is probably most familiar with the neck joint, and also the builder, it may be advantageous to have him do the work, that way you still have an "all Gurian" guitar. If he prefers not to, he may be able to suggest someone he trusts. I see you are in central PA.,I have been to the Woodstock Luthiers Invitational Show many times and I think I've seen him there every time I have been there, he's a regular. Perhaps there is a chance you could make arrangements to go to the show and leave it with him. He may go to the Artisan Guitar Show in eastern PA. also.
__________________
http://www.krausguitars.com
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-26-2020, 05:04 PM
tadol tadol is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Berkeley, CA
Posts: 3,855
Default

Fitting a new neck on an old guitar is not a trivial project - you might find a good used guitar for a very similar cost -
__________________
More than a few Santa Cruz’s, a few Sexauers, a Patterson, a Larrivee, a Lynch, a Cumpiano, and a Klepper!!

https://soundcloud.com/rnewman-1/san...chard-hoover-7
https://soundcloud.com/rnewman-1/san...richard-hoover
https://soundcloud.com/rnewman-1/lun...ith-rick-barto
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-26-2020, 05:06 PM
hermithollow hermithollow is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 298
Default

You could try recutting the nut slots to put the e strings closer to the edge and respacing the strings in between. There is only 1/8th inch difference between 1 5/8th and 1 3/4 so you might get things within 1/16th just by replacing the nut
and recutting the slots.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-26-2020, 10:25 PM
gfirob gfirob is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Central Vermont
Posts: 712
Default

I looked into this once for a 40's series Martin and it was very expensive and I was discouraged from doing it by most of the guys I asked. Better to sell the guitar and replace it or just learn to love it (which is what I did, but it took more than five years.
__________________
2003 Martin OM-42, K&K's
1932 National Style O, K&K's
1936 Kalamazoo KG-14, K&K's
1957 National 1155 (Gibson J45 body, National neck) K&K's
1967 Gretsch 6120 Chet Atkins Nashville
2005 Warmoth Telecaster, Lindy Fralins
Ear Trumpet Labs Edwina
Tonedexter
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-26-2020, 10:34 PM
mirwa mirwa is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,491
Default

If your happy with the guitar then absolutley do it, first find a competant luthier and get them to make you a new neck.

Its a decent size job, dont expect much change from 1k, if your okay with that then go for it

I can make a rough cut neck in an hr and a bit (Labour time not glue dryjng time), that is scarf cut, stacked heel, truss rod slot cut and rough shaped

It takes me around another 9hrs to turn that into a finished functional neck on an existing guitar

Steve
__________________
Cole Clark Fat Lady
Gretsch Electromatic
Martin CEO7
Maton Messiah
Taylor 814CE

Last edited by mirwa; 01-26-2020 at 11:03 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-26-2020, 10:44 PM
DenverSteve's Avatar
DenverSteve DenverSteve is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Denver
Posts: 11,897
Default

I have to agree with Mirwa. It's your guitar and if you care for it enough to make it better for you - go for it. If done professionally by a good luthier no one will care that the neck has been replaced. String spacing at the saddle is a no brainer and easy to do.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-26-2020, 11:14 PM
mirwa mirwa is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,491
Default

In photo sharing mood today.

Here is one i did earlier, my point any good luthier can do this for you

Start of job



Old neck removed



Rough cut neck being test fitted



Neck now shaped / fitted and new fingerboard ebony to customers requests



Inlaid with in house cut shell, fretted, new nut etc



Painted



Finished with new logos etc

__________________
Cole Clark Fat Lady
Gretsch Electromatic
Martin CEO7
Maton Messiah
Taylor 814CE
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-27-2020, 06:39 AM
Slothead56 Slothead56 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Central PA
Posts: 1,514
Default

Thanks everyone. Was curious as to consensus. Think you convinced me to let it be. The guitar has tremendous sentimental value. No change to occur.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-27-2020, 07:46 AM
redir redir is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Mountains of Virginia
Posts: 5,415
Default

That's the neck joint described in Cumpiano and Natelson's book. Very difficult to execute. I wonder how many people got frustrated and gave up in that section of the book. In the early 90's I used CN book for a couple guitars and have more or less adopted that open style of building, but used a dovetail instead. Later he updated it on his online accompaniment to the book saying the following:

Quote:
I learned the system in the Gurian workshops during the early seventies. The system was reportedly adapted by Michael Gurian and Walter Lipton from post-and-beam barn construction. In this ancient joint, oak pins are hammered through holes in the mortise into holes holes drilled in the tenon, holes drilled slightly offset, thus drawing the two tightly and permanently together. On the barn, both mortise and tenon were massive, and the pin was knocked in with a hammer.



The joint's guitar counterpart requires much greater finesse and precision. An offset of one to two sixty-fourths of an inch is correct: much more and the pin simply refuses to enter the tenon or, if it does, mayhem can ensue: the neck shaft can be drawn forcibly away from the fingerboard. This rarely happened at the Gurian shop: we all learned how to install it without problems. But, alas, hindsight has shown that it is not a good neck joint to learn to do from a book or expect to get it right the first time every time. I've become aware over the years that although some students seemed to handle its challenges pretty well, other people using were stymied by the precision required for it to work properly—if not the number of special gadgets, fixtures and implements that have to be fashioned to handle its assembly.
https://www.cumpiano.com/an-improved-neck-body-joint
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 01-27-2020, 08:11 AM
Mr. Paul Mr. Paul is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Sangre de Cristo mountains
Posts: 2,093
Default

Understand your final decision, also understand why you would consider changing the neck. Those Gurians were great guitars but many folks found them just about unplayable because of their skinny necks.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-27-2020, 09:29 AM
Skarsaune Skarsaune is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 633
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mirwa View Post
In photo sharing mood today.

Here is one i did earlier, my point any good luthier can do this for you

Nice work. I'm finding matching up a neck to an existing dovetail challenging on a current project. Did you already know the details of the one shown, or did you have to measure it once it was apart?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-27-2020, 03:31 PM
rwe rwe is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Posts: 4
Default

Gurians don't have dovetails... (Ok, I think that's not new for you.) I also have some problems with the slim necks. Meanwhile I could solve the problem by buying 2 Gurians with a broad neck... - but before getting these instruments I asked a luthier in Germany about fitting a new, broader neck with the profile similar to a seagull s6 neck. It was about 10 years ago and he estimated costs of 500 EUR. But I didn't realized this project and now I have Gurians with a smaller and with a wider neck.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-27-2020, 10:18 PM
mirwa mirwa is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,491
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skarsaune View Post
Did you already know the details of the one shown, or did you have to measure it once it was apart?
Once apart
__________________
Cole Clark Fat Lady
Gretsch Electromatic
Martin CEO7
Maton Messiah
Taylor 814CE
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > Build and Repair

Thread Tools



All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=