Organic Foods

[guitar george]

Does anyone look for and buy organic foods? My wife and I buy some if they are available. These guys are really into it.

[seannx]

I buy organic whenever possible. Some stores I shop at in CA only carry organic. Tests have shown organic veggies to be consistently much lower or free from pesticide residues, they are often higher in nutritional value, and grown in a more sustainable and beneficial manner for the environment. They usually taste better, too. The cost is usually more, but I think I save the difference in health care cost.

[fazool]

organic produce is fine.

organic meat is actually unethical because you are denying animals medicine. And given their proximity to each other on farms they are more likely to be sick and suffering. Food animals are guaranteed the five protections of Animal Rights and the group think of organic food is borderline abuse.

[Murphy Slaw]

I like both types...

[RedJoker]

We grow what we can and usually buy organic as well. BTW, we're huge fans of Portlandia.

Originally Posted by fazool

organic produce is fine.

organic meat is actually unethical because you are denying animals medicine. And given their proximity to each other on farms they are more likely to be sick and suffering. Food animals are guaranteed the five protections of Animal Rights and the group think of organic food is borderline abuse.

I agree with this. However, we sidestep the whole problem by eating vegan.

[DCCougar]

Originally Posted by guitar george

These guys are really into it....

Mrs. Cougar and I have been binge-watching Portlandia lately. How come I'd never see this before? It is crazy funny!

[catdaddy]

Originally Posted by fazool

organic produce is fine.

organic meat is actually unethical because you are denying animals medicine. And given their proximity to each other on farms they are more likely to be sick and suffering. Food animals are guaranteed the five protections of Animal Rights and the group think of organic food is borderline abuse.

That's a rather broad brush to be painting with. I'm sure there are abuses and conditions which fit your description, but local organic farmers and ranchers here aren't crowding animals; refusing to use "feed lot" conditions where the animals are packed flank to flank, ankle deep in their own feces, and provide veterinary services for animals that require treatment for any illness. From birth to abattoir I can't imagine a life more horrific for any animal than the crowded, filthy, inhumane conditions that are typical of modern factory farming animal husbandry regardless of how much medication they're given.

[BrunoBlack]

We tend to buy organic in general. We eat local pasture raised meat and keep our eye on the “dirty dozen” when it comes to fruits and vegetables. Nearly 70 percent of the produce sold in the U.S. comes with pesticide residues. The fruits and vegetables with the most pesticides(in rank order) according to the lists I’ve seen are listed below and we almost always buy organic for these.

Strawberries
Spinach
Kale
Nectarines
Apples
Grapes
Peaches
Cherries
Pears
Tomatoes
Celery
Potatoes

Here’s a link to the Environmental Working Group (EWP) https://www.ewg.org/foodnews/summary.php

[KevWind]

As much as we can and almost exclusively

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by fazool

organic produce is fine.

organic meat is actually unethical because you are denying animals medicine. And given their proximity to each other on farms they are more likely to be sick and suffering. Food animals are guaranteed the five protections of Animal Rights and the group think of organic food is borderline abuse.

This is pretty ironic, ever been to a feedlot ? If you want to see the poster child for "animal abuse" go visit one.
You are buying into the livestock industry misinformation campaign if you think feedlot animals are any healthier than free range animals

[619TF]

Nope. Simply too expensive for poor folks like me. Sure I'll probably get sick and die sooner but until the powers that be decide to pay me enough to pay my rent AND eat organic it's the regular stuff for me.

[Borderdon]

Agree with KevWind, friends run an organic farm producing beef, pork & poultry,
Light years away from large scale commercial production.
Lots of misinformation out there, food production being a magnet for lots of it.

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Borderdon

Agree with KevWind, friends run an organic farm producing beef, pork & poultry,
Light years away from large scale commercial production.
Lots of misinformation out there, food production being a magnet for lots of it.

You are comparing large feed industry to small organic farm. It has nothing to do with the SIZE of the operation. A small farm doesn't make it "organic" and "free range" has nothing to do with organic.

This is, exactly, misinformation.


Organic has to do with not using antibiotics nor medicines to treat diseases.

You can have a small operation, free range farm that is organic - so when their animals need medicine they suffer instead of being treated humanely.


The massive misinformation is from the Organic movement (anti-Vaccers, etc.)

[fazool]

Originally Posted by KevWind

This is pretty ironic, ever been to a feedlot ? If you want to see the poster child for "animal abuse" go visit one.
You are buying into the livestock industry misinformation campaign if you think feedlot animals are any healthier than free range animals

Again, you are confusing free range with organic - these are not at all related.

Our daughter has been in vet medicine for years so we have direct inside info.

Free Range does not mean organic
Large scale does not mean non-organic
Small scale does not mean organic
etc.


Organic means - no vaccines and no medicine so sick animals suffer and spread infections.

The misinformation is that people are equating Free Range (wonderful and human) and small operation (wonderful and usually humane) with organic (veterinary abuse).

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by fazool

Again, you are confusing free range with organic - these are not at all related.

"Our daughter has been in vet medicine for years so we have direct inside info".


Free Range does not mean organic
Large scale does not mean non-organic
Small scale does not mean organic
etc.


Organic means - no vaccines and no medicine so sick animals suffer and spread infections.

The misinformation is that people are equating Free Range (wonderful and human) and small operation (wonderful and usually humane) with organic (veterinary abuse).

Huh ? "Our daughter has been in vet medicine for years so we have direct inside info." that is fairly ambiguous statement does that mean she is a VET works for a Vet or works in the vet medicine industry ? If it is the latter, then that is not much of an endorsement for objective "inside info"
NOT to mention
My son in law has been Vet for years And I live in arguably the most livestock oriented state in the US so direct "inside info" indeed, but honestly "appeal to authority" is not a great logical argument. just sayin

And no I am not confusing free range with organic, I never stated free range was organic , perhaps my point was not as clear as I thought .
Which was in terms of amount of abuse inflicted. Even if we say organic livestock producers not using medicine is abusive , (a debatable issue where livestock is concerned and all the other situational factors ) but for the sake of argument even if it is,,,, the amount of overall "abuse" is miniscule, compared to the amount of inherent abuse Feedlot operations represent. Which was my point.




Given some estimated 97% of cattle are on feedlots, I was noting how of being concerned about the tiny amount of possible "abuse" of organic raised cattle, compared to the hughe number and the horrendous conditions and obvious abuse of feedlot operations . It seems ironic to be focused on 3% rather than the 97% amount of abuse
Not to mention that most organic livestock is not raised in overcrowded conditions is healthier conditions so the need for vaccines is exponentially less than in the foul veritable petri dish conditions of feedlots

And apparently Organic does not mean (NO) medicine or vaccines at all

This is from the USDA web sight "Organic livestock Requirements"

https://www.ams.usda.gov/sites/defau...quirements.pdf

Prevention. Since organic farmers can’t routinely use
drugs to prevent diseases and parasites, they mostly
use animal selection and management practices. Only
a few drugs, such as vaccines, are allowed.
Treatment. Pain medication and dewormers (for dairy
and breeder stock) are examples of allowed animal
drugs. These therapies are only allowed if preventive
strategies fail and the animal becomes ill.
Approved synthetics: http://bit.ly/livestock-synthetics
If approved interventions fail, the animal must still be
given all appropriate treatment(s). However, once an
animal is treated with a prohibited substance (e.g.,
antibiotics), the animal and/or its products must not be
sold as organic post-treatment.