Charmed Life Brown Picks No Longer Available

[jaymarsch]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

It's been about four weeks now since this thread began, and it's given me some time to reflect.

Thanks for all who contributed to this discussion. Life is very good. Our daughter will present with us our first grandchild in June. All the most important things in our family's life are in place. That will always be our priority.

Sometimes we get worked up about things which at the time seem really upsetting, but on reflection seem pretty minor. The long view is the best view.

Thanks again for adding to this discussion. Appreciate it.

Scott Memmer

Thanks for the update, Scott. How exciting!

Best,
Jayne

[Goat Mick]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

It's been about four weeks now since this thread began, and it's given me some time to reflect.

Thanks for all who contributed to this discussion. Life is very good. Our daughter will present with us our first grandchild in June. All the most important things in our family's life are in place. That will always be our priority.

Sometimes we get worked up about things which at the time seem really upsetting, but on reflection seem pretty minor. The long view is the best view.

Thanks again for adding to this discussion. Appreciate it.

Scott Memmer

Congratulations Papaw!!!!

[DesertTwang]

Originally Posted by Acoustic Wolf

I mean, that's obviously what they wanted you to believe of course, that there was some altruistic motive for it, and not because they wanted to prevent other people from competing with them in order to continue making profits. Any argument could be made like that, for example, I believe if we cut the corporate taxes for large corporations like Google and Amazon, such system would be created to advance our economy, by providing them ultimate freedom to create better products without having to worry about taxes, which will ultimately benefit consumers. I just made that up, but it's just to demonstrate that you can say anything and claim some sort of great philosophy behind it.

Reading the words "altruism" and "economy" in one sentence made me laugh out loud.

And with that, it's back to playing

[Nick S]

When I play for my grandchildren, I point out that my pick is made from space-age plastic used in jet engines.

Nick S.

[pdx]

So can I order earrings in the shape of brown Vespel guitar picks? For the girlfriend.

[personatech]

Originally Posted by Acoustic Wolf

I mean, that's obviously what they wanted you to believe of course, that there was some altruistic motive for it, and not because they wanted to prevent other people from competing with them in order to continue making profits. Any argument could be made like that, for example, I believe if we cut the corporate taxes for large corporations like Google and Amazon, such system would be created to advance our economy, by providing them ultimate freedom to create better products without having to worry about taxes, which will ultimately benefit consumers. I just made that up, but it's just to demonstrate that you can say anything and claim some sort of great philosophy behind it.

It's not altruism, but justice. The thinking is that if a small inventor brings something new to market then there must be some form of protection to prevent larger, established entities from swooping in and leveraging their greater resources to corner that market. The patent system was brilliant once. Is it brilliant now? Not so sure.

Of course, there is another possible course of action between the two parties involved - CLP can always approach BC about licensing the protected IP.

[frankmcr]

Originally Posted by personatech

It's not altruism, but justice. The thinking is that if a small inventor brings something new to market then there must be some form of protection to prevent larger, established entities from swooping in and leveraging their greater resources to corner that market. The patent system was brilliant once. Is it brilliant now? Not so sure.

Why, has there been some big reduction in the number of people who are looking to take advantage of other people's ideas?

[personatech]

Originally Posted by frankmcr

Why, has there been some big reduction in the number of people who are looking to take advantage of other people's ideas?

No, but things other than human inventions (like parts of the human genome itself) have been controversially patented in recent years. The patenting of parts of the human genome (and any other gene found in nature) has been reversed by SCOTUS, but genes that have been created (i.e. not found in nature but developed by science for corporations) can still be patented.

[H165]

Uh oh.... guess I'd better stop giving away my 30-year-old methodology for making Catalin picks, and get a patent! LOL - I learned long ago that patents are basically marketing devices. More importantly, I learned it's far more expensive to defend a patent than to challenge a patent.

Patent challenges in the fields where I've had some experience (aluminum window and door production, and "pop-up shade" production) basically amounted to one thing: producing and selling the product, and then waiting for someone to come after you. In both cases, the patent challenger made so much income during the time they sold the pirated product, they were STILL ahead finacially after being sued, losing the suit, and stopping production. Their next move was to return to manufacturing full force on the day the patents ran out. They are still in business and making millions today.

I'm sincerely hoping this issue is resolved and disappears. We're all working together on the big goal - making the best music we can.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by H165

Uh oh.... guess I'd better stop giving away my 30-year-old methodology for making Catalin picks, and get a patent! LOL - I learned long ago that patents are basically marketing devices. More importantly, I learned it's far more expensive to defend a patent than to challenge a patent.

Patent challenges in the fields where I've had some experience (aluminum window and door production, and "pop-up shade" production) basically amounted to one thing: producing and selling the product, and then waiting for someone to come after you. In both cases, the patent challenger made so much income during the time they sold the pirated product, they were STILL ahead finacially after being sued, losing the suit, and stopping production. Their next move was to return to manufacturing full force on the day the patents ran out. They are still in business and making millions today.

I'm sincerely hoping this issue is resolved and disappears. We're all working together on the big goal - making the best music we can.

Well said.

Here's the problem. My patent attorney, one the best in CA, tells me he would never have advised a client with this kind of product to seek a patent. The patent at issue cost well in excess of $100,000 -- and that didn't go to USPTO. I'll let you put two and two together.

I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to manufacture Vespel picks the last five years. It's been a pleasure to, as you say, H165, "make music sound better."

Nothing lasts forever, and the only guarantee we have in life is change. This too shall pass.

This other company was one of the very reasons I got into the pick business. I have nothing but praise for them, both now and in the future. Everyone around here knows that. It's just the way I roll.

Thanks for your post.

sm

[12barBill]

Originally Posted by pdx

So can I order earrings in the shape of brown Vespel guitar picks? For the girlfriend.

Now THAT is brilliant.

[Glennwillow]

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Picks

Well said.

Here's the problem. My patent attorney, one the best in CA, tells me he would never have advised a client with this kind of product to seek a patent. The patent at issue cost well in excess of $100,000 -- and that didn't go to USPTO. I'll let you put two and two together.

I'm grateful to have had the opportunity to manufacture Vespel picks the last five years. It's been a pleasure to, as you say, H165, "make music sound better."

Nothing lasts forever, and the only guarantee we have in life is change. This too shall pass.

This other company was one of the very reasons I got into the pick business. I have nothing but praise for them, both now and in the future. Everyone around here knows that. It's just the way I roll.

Thanks for your post.

sm

Scott,

I think you are taking the only approach you can and approaching the situation in a very reasonable way. I appreciate your attitude.

I'm surprised that this patent application actually went through the system at the US PTO and became a patent. In general, material selection would not be the basis for a patent. But sometimes there are surprises in this world. You just have to roll with them.

I think the US patent system is a good system, though nothing in this world is perfect. The inventor through his patent attorney tells the US PTO the basis for the patent so that another person skilled in the art can make sense of it and use the idea, and in exchange for that information to advance the art, the inventor is allowed a 20-year monopoly on the invention. It's a very reasonable quid pro quo. That 20 years starts from the date of the application; sometimes the PTO adds a little time to the invention monopoly due to their delays.

I am not a patent attorney, but rather an engineer that has worked within the patent system with various patent attorneys for the past 40 years because of a fair number of my own patents.

- Glenn

[Silly Moustache]

72 posts in and I'll have a say on this.

When I first heard of Blue Chip picks I was sure that it was a scam aimed at Baby boomers with disposable cash that would buy the most expensive of anything.
Then I met a number of British and American bluegrass artists who said how they liked them.

Somehow, can't remember how, I got hold of one used. Maybe someone on this forum sent/sold it to me??? (If so many thanks!!!)

It was a Blue chip TAD40.
It reluctantly impressed me greatly, in three ways :
1. The material and its resistance to wear,
2. The 346 triangular shape - never used one before !
3. The grip - they didn't slip!
3. The speed bevels. They really do make a very significant difference!

I spent far more than £35 (plus postage) buying every 346 style pick on the market. NONE of them (including the Dunlop brown coloured primetones that magically appeared shortly after came anywhere near the Blue chip picks.
(One exception - Wegen TF120/140 picks - dunno what they are made of - I'd assumed casein).

I tried modifying Dunlop Tortex, Ultex, D'andrea, Fender (celluloid) etc.
The bevels were the most important aspect -as on the BCs and Wegens.

As said earlier BC start at .89 m/m .035" and go up to 2.5 m/m (1 m/m)
I doubt that most serious flat-pickers would use anything thinner and only jazzers would use thicker ones (Wegen leads the market leaders there!)

It takes a long time to modify a mass produced pick like the Dunlops (max thickness 1.14 m/m).
I gave up, and invested in a Blue chip pick for every guitar I own.

TAD 50s on larger, TAD 40 on smaller and TAD50 -3r (rounded tips for mandolin - finally consigning my favourite tortoiseshell picks to the tortoiseshell box that rarely sees the light now.

Blue Chip picks are simply the best and finest finished product on the market. As long as you are suitably anal retentive like me - you will never lose them and so will last a lifetime.

Customer service? My largest order got lost en-route; Matthew Goins simply resent it for me - (he suspected that they didn't get any further than his local post office).

I have no experience of Scotts products, ... so I can make no comment.

Last word - "boycotting" Blue Chip picks will only deny yourself access to the finest picking product available.

The Silly Moustache has spake and so twitches and goes downstairs to restring a Collings.

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by Glennwillow

Scott,

I think you are taking the only approach you can and approaching the situation in a very reasonable way. I appreciate your attitude.

I'm surprised that this patent application actually went through the system at the US PTO and became a patent. In general, material selection would not be the basis for a patent. But sometimes there are surprises in this world. You just have to roll with them.

I think the US patent system is a good system, though nothing in this world is perfect. The inventor through his patent attorney tells the US PTO the basis for the patent so that another person skilled in the art can make sense of it and use the idea, and in exchange for that information to advance the art, the inventor is allowed a 20-year monopoly on the invention. It's a very reasonable quid pro quo. That 20 years starts from the date of the application; sometimes the PTO adds a little time to the invention monopoly due to their delays.

I am not a patent attorney, but rather an engineer that has worked within the patent system with various patent attorneys for the past 40 years because of a fair number of my own patents.

- Glenn

Glenn, howdy, I never hear from you anymore unless I go over to the song-sharing area in AGF. Thanks for dropping in and contributing.

It is indeed one of the more bizarre patent grants I've ever seen. I mean, Vespel was invented in 1965 and DuPont themselves no longer has a patent on the material or its formulation. The only thing they've retained is the trademark name and logo. How the heck does one get a patent on a material you don't make on a design (pick shape) that's been around for more than a century? Anyway, more power to them. I just wouldn't pay six figures for such a thing. For example, if Dunlop wanted to come in tomorrow and make Vespel picks, they'd laugh at such a thing and sally forth. Time will tell. Thanks again. Great to hear from you.

Silly Mustache, thanks for your comprehensive reply. At my request, would you please post in this thread your vid on how to fashion a speed bevel? This is valuable info for AGF members, and it's been a while since you posted it.

Thanks again to you both, and to the other contributors. Lift goes on, as do we.

scott memmer

[lar]

In addition to Silly's helpful video, here is another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwb0...&index=17&t=0s