Compare Bose L1 Compact vs Fishman SA330x

[Reasley]

Originally Posted by Groberts

Reasley, That was an AMAZING Post! Very informative and helpful. Hearing the Bose clarity across the lake was shocking. I have an L1 Compact and I am still amazed at its even handed dispersion and overall tone quality. (I do not use a T1)

My acoustic guitar (Martin OMC-18E w/ Fishman Aura VT enhance Pickup) sounds great straight in. Although I use a pedalboard preamp with tone shaping controls for various guitars. But mostly it is set Flat.

Vocal mic is a Sennheiser E935 and yeah ..its SUPERB!

You DON'T need the T1 with the L1 Compact. And we have used a variety of mixers with the Bose; Behringer Xair, Mackie DL1608, Etc. All sound great. I'm sure the T1 is cool. But its not the only option. It may however be optimized. But we can get Great results without ever trying the T1.

I fancy the idea of the L1 Series 2 with bass module however. That is a wonderful system. I just prefer the ease of set up/tear down with the L1 Compact. (and for now, its mostly all I need)

My Duo partner and band mate and I both have L1 Compacts. We often use the pair of them for the band. We don't use kick drum however. I think that would overwhelm the L1 Compact Subs. But for vocals, acoustic guitar, drum overhead, even mic'ing an electric guitar amp, the pair of L1 Compacts have proven to be quite worthy.

Thanks so much for a much-appreciated affirmation of my post. Two things sold me on Bose: 1) that "lake video" that I linked and my ex brother in law. He is an incredible guitarist and an even more extreme perfectionist and, when I texted him and told him "I am considering getting Elizabeth a Bose L1 Model 2 -- are you familiar with them?" And when he said "I HAVE that system" it told me all that I needed, because that sentence was pregnant with meaning: that he had researched *everything* and could find nothing better.

Back to your Compact: they are great, too! Our office manager regularly plays clubs and private parties around Central Texas with her son playing guitar and when I started looking at Bose systems, I knew that she had one and it sounded great. I was assuming that it was a L1 Model 2 but it was a Compact and she has played all kinds of venues with it.

On mikes, I never DREAMED that a mike could sound THAT much better than an SM58 -- a workhorse in pop music for what, three decades or more? To me. The Sennheiser e935 lets you do things vocally that you either didn't know you could do or do better. I think that it is pretty analagous to playing tennis against a much better competitor -- it "raises your game significantly," so to speak.

Again, thanks for a very nice reply. I'm back on this forum after a brief visit a couple of years ago and, frankly, I am surprised a bit with the ego defensiveness and insecurity of some of the posters as evidenced by their desire to "one-up" others and some simply general rudeness. I actually had someone respond to one of my "wanting to help" posts today telling the original poster "Don't do that." in response to a suggestion I made. Not only was their admonition rude, but it was wrong and came across as naive arrogance, which it was. What's up with that? So, thanks very much for your thoughtful reply.

[Andy Howell]

The T1 is a great little mixer but when using the Compact there are other options which are as good and might be better for individual needs. The T1 is very convenient for use with the L1 because of its direct digital connection.

[Nama Ensou]

Posting removed due to lack of interest...

[JakeStone]

Thank you to Reasley for such an informative post.

This thread has had a very impressive amount of valuable contributors.

Originally Posted by Reasley

I have read this thread with great interest because I have bought two (yes, 2) Bose L1 Model 2s in the last six months: one for my daughter who plays around Dallas/Fort Worth and one for my son who currently is living in Hawaii for two more years so I am taking care of it (read: using it a LOT, LOL) here in Texas until he returns to the states. And, when he returns, I'll buy another one for me. Seriously.

My observations, in no particular order:

[zhunter]

Originally Posted by Reasley

17) Someone mentioned that obstacles affect the sound. I respectfully disagree. The day we gave it to my daughter, after she had played it inside for a while, we set it up on the carport to sort of mimic an outdoor venue (I live on acreage). Me and her father-in-law walked through the backyard that has quite a few mature oaks and noticed no difference whatsoever in sound. Then, he walked up the hill to the horse stables (about 150 yards away) and listened on the way up and back and was blown away by both the volume and the clarity. Re-watch the first video to see the same thing.

The statement was throw properties are greatly affected by "stage obstructions". It is true.

hunter

[Reasley]

Originally Posted by jseth

Troggg;

Secondly, I heard NOTHING but horror stories about people using the mic stand mount from Bose and also, the attachment gizmo that works with the speaker column... so I never even thought of using that... figuring that having the T1 "take a dive" from either place would NOT be beneficial to it's performance or longevity!

My work-around was to buy a small flat tray that attaches to my mic stand... I think it was $12 on Amazon? - has a "rubberized" bottom to the tray and the T1 seems to want to stay where I put it. I had short cables made up for both my guitars and my vocal mic, so there isn't a bunch of excess hanging off the tray/mic stand, so the only cord is from the T1 to the L1 Model II "base".

You are very correct about the *mic stand* mount from Bose but the *speaker stand* mount works great and I wouldn't hesitate to use it. It is simply a metal bracket and, as such, is firm and solid.

The flat tray is a good alternative to the Bose mic stand mount but my DIY solution is the best mic stand solution because you can (securely) "dial in" the angle of the T1 relative to your standing or sitting position, such that it is always at the exact "viewing angle" while performing.

I really like your idea of "custom length" chords for the Bose when used on a mic stand. And, to take it one step further, to be ideal, use 90 degree 1/4" outs and to take it two steps further, use a SLR 90 degree out (if there is such a thing). These would REALLY clean up the "on-stand" look. Actually, Bose should take your idea, add in my refinements, and market these as accessories. We'll forego royalties and, instead, accept a lifetime supply of Martin Titanium strings. Deal?

[Reasley]

Originally Posted by Nama Ensou

I bypassed the excellent Sennheiser 835 when I tried the 845 and have two other mics that I use regularly instead. They are very different from each other, but some of the best you can find for picky vocalists like myself. The first mic to unseat my still beloved 845's was the Audio Technica AE-6100, and I now have two or three of them.

Most recently I have been playing 4-5 nights a week using my Heil PR-35 and they are just incredible, with a learning curve. I love to sing with a very, very wide dynamic range and the way the PR-35 allows me to do the most quiet whispers all the way up to full on blasting into the mic with perfect clarity from one end to the other is absolutely addictive.

Last weekend I had misplaced both of my PR-35's (left them in the back of my guitar amp) and I had to use the AE-6100 for the first time in over four months. Not really looking forward to having to use the AE-6100 after having become so accustomed to the PR-35 for the past few months, I almost immediately remembered that, "Oh yeah, this is why this is also one of my favorite mics"!

The Sennheiser 845 (easily found under $150) and Audio Technica AE-6100 (typically just under $200) both require a bit closer mic work, whereas the Heil PR-35 (usually $240 and up, I bought two this year for under $200) can be overly sensitive to plosives, but also offers a great working range all the way from a foot away up to lips touching the mics, if the singer does their part in breath control.

Wow. So much great info in this post. Thank you!!!

You have me wanting to get "just one more mike," LOL. It sounds like the PR-35 is your choice but you also speak highly of the AE-6100. Given that I have the e935 already, which one would you recommend to provide different benefits to the e935?

[Reasley]

Originally Posted by JakeStone

When I bought the Bose.. My very knowledgeable dealer friend stated the Compact was suitable for smaller places .. 50-75 people. He said it's not intended for anything bigger.

Thanks for the reminder that I left that info out of my original post. On the Bose site, here are their rules of thumb about audience size:

a) Compact: for audiences up to 100.
b) L1 Model 1S: for audiences up to 300.
c) L1 Model 2: for audiences up to 500.

[troggg]

Originally Posted by Reasley

Thanks for the reminder that I left that info out of my original post. On the Bose site, here are their rules of thumb about audience size:

a) Compact: for audiences up to 100.
b) L1 Model 1S: for audiences up to 300.
c) L1 Model 2: for audiences up to 500.

Appreciate your vivid posts.

Just one thing. Here you're backing the Bose rule of thumb on audience size. Earlier, you ignored the Bose rule of thumb that every player should have their own L1C.

So, do you recommend following Bose rules of thumb or not? Please clarify.

Also, you've mentioned your own stand mount a few times. Pictures, perhaps?

Thanks.

[Reasley]

Originally Posted by JakeStone

Thank you to Reasley for such an informative post.

This thread has had a very impressive amount of valuable contributors.

Thanks, Jake -- much appreciated!!!

[Reasley]

Originally Posted by troggg

Appreciate your vivid posts.

Just one thing. Here you're backing the Bose rule of thumb on audience size. Earlier, you ignored the Bose rule of thumb that every player should have their own L1C.

So, do you recommend following Bose rules of thumb or not? Please clarify.

Also, you've mentioned your own stand mount a few times. Pictures, perhaps?

Thanks.

Thanks for the reply. To better answer your question, let me clarify who I am. I played some in college, years ago, and started playing again much more seriously after my divorce in 2012, with about a 20 year period where I wasn't playing much at all. My daughter, who is now 26, has been pretty serious for 10 years or so. But she "knows nothing/wants to know nothing/doesn't want to learn anything" about acoustic amplification. She wants to drive the car, that's all. The path to the ideal solo singer/guitarist's PA invariably led me to Bose systems: they were tailor-made for someone like her. She can "hook up the wires" on the system, LOL, and that's a big deal.

I don't think I ignored what Bose said about the compacts; I don't remember saying anything about that but, if I did, my apologies.

My point about their audience size "rules of thumb" is that they simplify the consumer search process by using "size of audience" which anyone understands instead of "wattage of unit" or some other measure that many wouldn't understand.

In terms of my recommendations, first, I am not an equipment expert. I am an expert in consumer behavior and the psychology of consumption. With that in mind, here is my take on their three systems:

1) Buy the highest one in the chain that you can afford because:

2) The "larger" ones will cover audiences from one up to their "limits."

3) To me, the incremental weight/size of the L1 Model 2 for gigging is inconsequential unless you have a subcompact car or are walking "two miles in the snow" with it, LOL. Others may feel differently. My daughter is 5'1" and her system is no problem for her.

4) Buy used. A personal preference because of the TREMENDOUS cost savings of already relatively expensive systems. I can walk through the logic of this but it would require way too much typing. There is little risk involved.

5) Many thanks for the picture request. I didn't realize that one had to be a "Charter Member" to post pictures. I am now. But, for some reason, I can only upload one at a time. I *think* the one below is of my system in my great room. More pictures will follow shortly. As one can see, the system is very unobtrusive in my home. That is the entire system behind the piano except for the T1 (5"x6"?) that is sitting inside the piano.

[Reasley]

A clear view of the system from beside the piano, with a Fender Hot Rod de Ville electric amp at the bottom of the bookshelf:

[open-road-matt]

Lots of fun Bose L1 love on the AGF! Years ago I was called names on here for singing the praises of the L1!

Originally Posted by jseth

Secondly, I heard NOTHING but horror stories about people using the mic stand mount from Bose and also, the attachment gizmo that works with the speaker column... so I never even thought of using that... figuring that having the T1 "take a dive" from either place would NOT be beneficial to it's performance or longevity!

I too heard those horror stories but I've never had any trouble with the mic stand bracket. I don't use it on my vocal mic stand though.

I have two different T1 options.

One is my trusty Da-Lite Project-O-Stand:



The other is my more portable option:



That whole thing folds down into a little soft briefcase.

Oddly enough, the only two times my T1 has taken a dive was from the larger table. Once I had a woman come up to ask me something and when she turned to walk away she caught her foot on the T1 cable and pulled it down. The other was on a sunset cruise in Key West. We hit a wave and the T1 went flying. The cable saved it from going overboard! It's a hardy piece of gear!

Matt

[Reasley]

This is my DIY T1 mike stand bracket. The parts are:

1) The metal bracket from the crappy Bose unit.

2) One half of the plastic Bose clamp.

3) A bolt with a VERY fat flat head on the end, available from any hardware atore.

4) A large round "tightening knob," from a hardware store.

5) An incredible threaded (in multiple places) camera bracket that SECURELY holds the T1 to the mike stand -- as tight as you want -- completely unlike the Bose part.

6) JB Weld (not shown, and also, the 5 minute type) An incredible epoxy, native to Texas (where EVERYTHING is bigger and better, LOL, just kidding) that is so strong, that one can glue automobile engine blocks that have holes in them.

To complete this project, all that is left is to drill holes in the round flat "base" on the end of the bolt (so that the glue will be bonded through it) and then mix up the JB Weld, attach the two pieces, and contour it as it is drying. Repeat the epoxy application if further contouring is required. Contour as necessary on a bench belt sander if needed.

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by Reasley

Thanks for the reply. To better answer your question, let me clarify who I am. I played some in college, years ago, and started playing again much more seriously after my divorce in 2012, with about a 20 year period where I wasn't playing much at all. My daughter, who is now 26, has been pretty serious for 10 years or so. But she "knows nothing/wants to know nothing/doesn't want to learn anything" about acoustic amplification. She wants to drive the car, that's all. The path to the ideal solo singer/guitarist's PA invariably led me to Bose systems: they were tailor-made for someone like her. She can "hook up the wires" on the system, LOL, and that's a big deal.

I don't think I ignored what Bose said about the compacts; I don't remember saying anything about that but, if I did, my apologies.

My point about their audience size "rules of thumb" is that they simplify the consumer search process by using "size of audience" which anyone understands instead of "wattage of unit" or some other measure that many wouldn't understand.

In terms of my recommendations, first, I am not an equipment expert. I am an expert in consumer behavior and the psychology of consumption. With that in mind, here is my take on their three systems:

1) Buy the highest one in the chain that you can afford because:

2) The "larger" ones will cover audiences from one up to their "limits."

3) To me, the incremental weight/size of the L1 Model 2 for gigging is inconsequential unless you have a subcompact car or are walking "two miles in the snow" with it, LOL. Others may feel differently. My daughter is 5'1" and her system is no problem for her.

4) Buy used. A personal preference because of the TREMENDOUS cost savings of already relatively expensive systems. I can walk through the logic of this but it would require way too much typing. There is little risk involved.

5) Many thanks for the picture request. I didn't realize that one had to be a "Charter Member" to post pictures. I am now. But, for some reason, I can only upload one at a time. I *think* the one below is of my system in my great room. More pictures will follow shortly. As one can see, the system is very unobtrusive in my home. That is the entire system behind the piano except for the T1 (5"x6"?) that is sitting inside the piano.

What a magnificent music room! Love the Rug under the piano. (And all the super cool instruments of course)

Thanks for all your recent contributions to this thread. Good stuff my friend!