Eastman E1SS-CLA-LTD 1 week update

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by UncleJesse

You're killing me! I was looking at yet another E1SS but in natural last night. I always want to pull the trigger but haven't yet. I keep wanting to buy one but my HD28 really starts to hurt my shoulder after a while so I'm unsure if this would be any better.

Hi, A martin dreadnought is 4 &n7/8" max depth.

The guitar you are discussing is a jumbo style (not a dread) You should check the depth.

Also, maybe, your posture.

Here's a video I made some time ago, after losing a great deal of weight and muscle through cancer treatment and had that shoulder issue.

[SalFromChatham]

I’m glad you are enjoying yours...

I was intrigued by the reviews (and the price point), and I finally pulled the trigger earlier this week. It came, looked real pretty, and was pretty light. The sound was pleasing, but the one I bought is going back though, even though I’m out the return shipping. The saddle was way way low. While it played fine with medium low action, there was no room to come down now or in the future.

I was bummed. I like their neck shape and width, and like their tone.

[Ncbandit]

Originally Posted by themissal

I’m glad you are enjoying yours...

I was intrigued by the reviews (and the price point), and I finally pulled the trigger earlier this week. It came, looked real pretty, and was pretty light. The sound was pleasing, but the one I bought is going back though, even though I’m out the return shipping. The saddle was way way low. While it played fine with medium low action, there was no room to come down now or in the future.

I was bummed. I like their neck shape and width, and like their tone.

Sorry to hear that. Was yours new or used? I ask because my saddle is the highest I have ever seen on a guitar. I was a good 1/4 inch above the bridge. I actually adjusted my truss rod slightly to bring the action down.

[Ralph124C41]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Ralph, with the factory stock Sonitone pickup installed, these are not terribly loud guitars - in fact, they’re pretty quiet. When I pulled out the Sonitone undersaddle pickup element, the guitar became noticeably louder.

But the J-45 guitar design that the Eastman E1SS-LTD models are based on is not an especially loud design, not compared to the Gibson Advanced Jumbo (AJ) or the Gibson Songwriter models.

So you can’t really reduce this fairly complex matter of acoustic guitar loudness and projection to the species of spruce used for the top - you just can’t. For one thing, Adirondack tops themselves vary from one example to another. For another, the bracing pattern and placement has at least as much impact on loudness and projection as the top does. Theoretically, yes, an Adirondack top should be a tiny bit louder than a Sitka spruce top will be, but that can vary a great deal from one guitar top to the next.

The last issue has to do with projection. Many players assume that loudness and the ability of the guitar to be heard in a loud acoustic environment is the same thing.

But it’s not. Both the Gibson J-45 and the Martin D-35 are quite loud when you’re playing one, but they both have what’s called an enveloping presentation. Which means that the sound surrounds the player, but doesn’t project out as well as designs like the AJ and the Songwriter.

Which in practical terms means it can seem really loud to the player and anyone seated next to him, but won’t be heard nearly so clearly in front, especially if other instruments are being played at the same time.

Short version: when it comes to volume and projection, the species of spruce used for the top matters less than the guitar’s design and bracing pattern.

Hope that makes sense.


Wade Hampton Miller

Thank you for very much for that detailed info. That makes me rethink my appeal to the guitar as I really want a loud guitar that can hang with other guitars at an acoustic jam. The pickup I would probably never use. I just assumed the Adirondack top would give it a little more volume. I still will test one out, though.

[Scolaguitar]

My saddle was really high too. I get nervous with already low saddles myself. After a few months I had to get the action lowered and still have plenty left.

[zoopeda]

Originally Posted by TNO

Width is slimmer than a Martin-size dread and feels a lot less bulky.

Yeah, I don't know about "a lot less bulky." The Martin dreadnought is 3/8"" deeper than the Eastman jumbo (4-7/8" vs 4-1/2"), and the lower bout is similar width. I had an Eastman jumbo and Martin dread in the house for a while at the same time and thought they were pretty similar feeling under the arm. If you need relief from the dreadnought size, I think you have to move to an OM or 0000/M to notice a significant difference (4-1/8" deep).

[hotroad]

Take a look at the Martin OOO-17SM.. There is a great review by Tony Polacastro on YouTube and I own one. Its a triple O body size which is light and easy to hold and play. The tone is crazy good for a OOO and with a good pickup installed it sounds amazing, almost equal to my Bourgeois dread.

[SalFromChatham]

Originally Posted by Ncbandit

Sorry to hear that. Was yours new or used? I ask because my saddle is the highest I have ever seen on a guitar. I was a good 1/4 inch above the bridge. I actually adjusted my truss rod slightly to bring the action down.

Brand new.... the white of the saddle was barely above the bridge. The break angle was marginal for one reason... the pins are so close to the saddle.

Too bad. Pretty sound.

[Ncbandit]

Originally Posted by themissal

Brand new.... the white of the saddle was barely above the bridge. The break angle was marginal for one reason... the pins are so close to the saddle.

Too bad. Pretty sound.

Someone had to mess with the saddle. It would be hard to believe they would be that inconsistent. The pins are real close to the saddle on mine also. Must be the design.

[TNO]

Originally Posted by themissal

Brand new.... the white of the saddle was barely above the bridge. The break angle was marginal for one reason... the pins are so close to the saddle.

Too bad. Pretty sound.

Does it still have the pickup system in it? Removing the pickup requires a taller saddle.

[mischultz]

Played one today for a bit and liked it a lot. The body profile/contour was far more comfortable than a Taylor DN3 in the shop. Super musical and the first time, for me, that the Eastman product has taken measure of the hype. Not entirely certain how I feel about the narrower string spacing, but the guitar makes that a matter worth interrogating. I think that if I go short and select on value, this will probably be hard to top. Still pondering going long and investing in an OM if I can find the right voicing and chop.

[Ncbandit]

Originally Posted by mischultz

Played one today for a bit and liked it a lot. The body profile/contour was far more comfortable than a Taylor DN3 in the shop. Super musical and the first time, for me, that the Eastman product has taken measure of the hype. Not entirely certain how I feel about the narrower string spacing, but the guitar makes that a matter worth interrogating. I think that if I go short and select on value, this will probably be hard to top. Still pondering going long and investing in an OM if I can find the right voicing and chop.

Nice to hear. Good luck with your decision.

[Wade Hampton]

Originally Posted by Ralph124C41

Thank you for very much for that detailed info. That makes me rethink my appeal to the guitar as I really want a loud guitar that can hang with other guitars at an acoustic jam. The pickup I would probably never use. I just assumed the Adirondack top would give it a little more volume. I still will test one out, though.

My suggestion then is that you look for a used Martin D-18 or - if you can find one - a used Gibson Advanced Jumbo (AJ.) A Gibson model that might also do the job rather nicely is a recent J-35; these have the scalloped “advanced” bracing of the AJ adapted for the shorter scale.

Which is different than the scalloped bracing that the J-45 Vintage and the Eastman E1SS-LTD-CLA have: the AJ and J-35’s bracing is placed forward, hence the “advanced” designation. That’s what makes those guitars more projective.

There might also be other guitars in Eastman’s product line that will cut through the mix at loud jam sessions, but a short scale round-shouldered dreadnought modeled after the J-45 is not as likely to do the job as a J-35 will.

What’s at issue here, as I tried to explain in my earlier post, isn’t brute volume per se but projection. Getting a projective guitar will give you what you’re looking for.

Unfortunately, the average sales clerk at the average music store knows little about acoustic guitars to begin with, and their solution for being heard in loud situations is simply to plug in. So if you walk in and ask about acoustic guitars with projection as opposed to those with an enveloping presentation, they’ll probably look at you like you’ve got two heads.

Those are attributes that you have to figure out for yourself. It’s easiest to do that when you can stop by on a quiet weekday morning, not when there are lots of other people trying out guitars on the weekend.

But if you keep your eyes peeled for a Gibson AJ or J-35 or find a recent D-18, it’s hard to go wrong.

Hope this helps.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Dbone]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

Hi, A martin dreadnought is 4 &n7/8" max depth.

The guitar you are discussing is a jumbo style (not a dread) You should check the depth.

Also, maybe, your posture.

Here's a video I made some time ago, after losing a great deal of weight and muscle through cancer treatment and had that shoulder issue.

I have to say...I haven’t been around this place for a great deal of time. But I just wanted to take a moment and say that it is VERY noticeable how much you contribute to this community in terms of good, practical, and useful information. I have really taken note of that in my short time here. Thanks for all your time and contributions sir. It is people like yourself that make this a great place to hang out.

At 45 I’m okay but I do have some diagnosed issues going on with my shoulders that will probably inevitably work against me in larger ways later on. Got to get ahead of it. Perhaps this stuff will help.

Take care, and thanks again.

[Wade Hampton]

PS: It’s much easier to tell whether a guitar is projective if you can take a friend along with you when you test the instruments that a store has on hand. Take turns playing each guitar as you pick it up; stepping away and - ideally - around a corner while the guitar’s being played will tell you volumes about its projective qualities.

If you don’t have a guitar-playing friend that you can dragoon into coming along with you, if you go in on a slow weekday morning you might be able to get one of the store employees to take turns playing the guitars with you.

Getting out of the line of sight, like around a corner, as I mentioned, is particularly useful for this. Guitars that seem about the same when you’re standing right in front of them can prove to be quite different from each other when you listen to both when you’re out of the direct line of sight.

The guitars that come through loud and clear even when you’re fifteen feet away and around a corner are the ones you’re looking for.

Hope that makes sense.


whm