#16
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At the risk of repeating myself and others, the key to capturing those beautiful sounds is mic placement, room acoustics, mixing, and many, many, many hours of experimentation. Time spent pouring over mic specs, etc, or even trying different mics, is educational, but unless you choose some totally inappropriate mic, it won't be the mic that makes the difference in your recordings, it will be what you learn to do with it, which usually takes time, unfortunately.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#17
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You have the picture!...Spaced pair..Open sounding...Which is one of the other elements in the Mix(to coin a phrase) The large diaphram verses the small..What I like about the large diaphram..is its ability to capture more of the body sound...giving it a slightly smoother tone. What I dislike about the bigger capsule is you loose a little bit of dynamic range(which I always thought was transients=and now I am coming to learn that it actually might be dynamic range) So maybe the two combined!!! I could not open up the Gefell M300 recordings..but would love to hear them...They would be out of my price range at $1000 each..but..maybe I could find a used pair? So I will try and get that to open up for me. |
#18
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Mics are like wine: everyone has a favorite flavor and many will argue vehemently that theirs is the best. If you ask a grizzled old recording engineer what is the best mic for a particular application, he'll likely scratch his chin, think for a couple of seconds, and answer, "Mmmm... it depends."
I've got access to a mic locker of over 200 excellent mics here where I work and after years I still fiddle with different choices. Now, mind you, when the rubber hits the road and we are in a serious session, I'm quickly down to just a few favorites. Bob
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"It is said, 'Go not to the elves for counsel for they will say both no and yes.' " Frodo Baggins to Gildor Inglorion, The Fellowship of the Ring THE MUSICIAN'S ROOM (my website) |
#19
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Thanks, Trevor |
#20
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Please give me your two cents...as I can not test 200 mics ...ha ha.. Here is a recording made with octiva 012...which I had not hear till just a moment ago...And knowing the sound of many taylors..I would have to say that these mics do in fact give a good representation and Open sound, in the space pair setup.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRHluGf3S34 Given the parameters of my initial post...the mics under consideration would be. Audix Sc25A ( and that is only because I can get a deal on it) Octiva 012 Sennheiser E914 ( I have not heard a stereo set up yet) AT4050 or 4033cl Used Gefell300( if I could find them a reasonable price) Or anything else I should take a look at. The Mics under c |
#21
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Knives,
You said the following in your OP Quote:
1) Does that mean you strum chords and play single note leads? 2) With a flatpick? 3) Do you play in an ensemble? If so, what are the other instruments? 4) If you play in an ensemble, how do you want your guitar to be represented in any mix of all instruments (including any vocals)? |
#22
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but anyway..Great question my friend..No matter how much you think you have prefaced a question..there are always other factors that make a difference. Let me first restate...that I am not a great player..but I get great tone. I like to call myself a Rhythmistist..ha ha that is my new thing..Rhythm ...notes and Rhythm and lush chords. 1. I have a small background with classical..but moved on to melodic rock quickly when I was but a teenager in the 60's. While Townsend does not really use fingers much and makes a single pick work for him..My style has much of his influence...an example would be "Behind blue eyes.." but I would typicall mix in more Rhythm in between notes.. 2. I play with a different kind of thumpick that has a flat pick attached to it..so I use my three fingers and my thumb...goes back and forth between pick and fingers. My thumpick...has a flatpick attached..so it is much more flexable than standard. 3 & 4 While I do jam with a few friends... My concern is only my guitar and my vocal.(and my add some simple symphony or single note guitar later) +++I do realize, from my friend who is a pro mixer for many artist..that after recording..lots of stereo guitar recordings must be mixed down to a more singular effect..in order to be heard in the mix. But for me...I wish only to bring out the lavish sounds of my guitar...and the extreme dynamic range in which I play. I should mention..that some players have to use an small amp in order to be heard over my harder playing. **As I stated...I am not a great technical player...but sometimes my sound can be very nice. Sometimes the beauty is in two note open strummed chords..and the way I bring my pick and or fingers across it. I just heard a recording with two stereo Octiva 012...and I was very surprised it sounded very open. I did not think this was possible for that amount of money. I had heard an SERN17...which seems like a great sounding..open mic..but that is in a $1000 range..and I have seen no used ones.. And then there is the debate of Large verses small...the large sounds great in stereo as one of the members showed me with two AT4050. What I like about them is the large capsules capture the body sound...what I dislike is the dynamic capturing ability is less...so I was even thinking about one each? Anyway..to much talk...I am dying to hear your recommendations! |
#23
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Well it would be remiss not to mention that in the Octiva video all mic placements are nearly a foot away. Very, very difficult to get an untreated room to work effectively with a mic position of nearly a foot. Part of the magic of this video is indeed the mic placement and the room that supports the mic placement. Even in my living room which is the most damped in the house, a foot away and the room comes flooding in. I can of course RX it but there's always a trade-off there. You're judging a mic based off of a pretty great room. Somewhat (if not more-so) misleading for most of us living in the real world. |
#24
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Why do you think LD mics have more limited dynamic range?
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#25
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This is a brand new concept for me..one that I learned just last night..from an article.
And I am not saying it is correct and true..what I am saying is that I may have been thinking of things in different terms before. In the past..I always thought that small capsule mics had quicker transcient response times. As that is how I was always taught..and that is how it sounds... And that make some logical sense...thinking that it is much easier to move a small capsule over a larger diaphram... According to this article http://www.dpamicrophones.com/Websit...Diaphragm.aspx At the very bottom you will see a chart that says the large diaphram has lower dynamic range..IF I am reading this correctly...ha ha..you will probably set me straight..ha ha.. So maybe...just maybe all these years what I thought I was hearing as faster transients..might actually be a greater dynamic range. So I openly admit...that I may have this wrong...lots of speculation here...I am learning my friend...but that is what the chart leads me to believe. Merely trading dynamic for transients..While it does not say this..this is what I am assuming is happening. Words are so hard..and I often speak one word meaning something else. |
#26
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#27
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I would not question anything the dpa experts say about microphones, however the comments are generalizations and mikes within a given size category can vary quite a bit enough to create overlaps among size categories.
Regarding dynamic range, it's about the last thing I would worry about when recording an acoustic guitar.
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above |
#28
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Simply trying to state that often things convert to another technical result. |
#29
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We've had good luck with both the Audio Technica 4033 and the AKG C214. These are both large diaphragm condensers that run about $300 new. They're workhorse mics that excel both onstage and in the studio. For a small diaphragm condenser we've had good luck with AT Pro37's which are $130 from Musicians Friend. If you're on a budget, these are very good choices for acoustic guitars and other stringed instruments. The 4033 and C214 also work extremely well for vocals.
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"Out of all the sincere and well-intentioned attempts of politics, diplomacy, philosophy, religion, and education to get people to be peaceable together, ironically today, the last thing on earth that all seven billion of us agree on is that we like the steel string guitar." -Dan Crary |
#30
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