#31
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I don't want to take anything away from the comments made by Ty and Chris. They are undoubtedly correct in saying that very expensive microphones will do a better job if you can afford them.
However, I still maintain that many of us simply can't justify spending thousands of pounds/dollars on microphones to record demos and the like - especially given the results that can be achieved with microphones such as Rode. Indeed, even hiring a single expensive microphone for a week costs as much as buying a cheaper one. I would also remind people that Rode mixcrophones come with a 10 year guarantee! A while ago I bought a Rode NT2-A second hand and it proved to be faulty. Rode fixed it free of charge! Just to prove that you DON'T need to spend a fortune on equipment in order to achieve a respectable sound, I thought I'd post a link to a recording made by a solo fingerstyle acoustic guitarist I have become friends with online. Michael Mucklow is based in New Mexico and is one of Walden's featured artists. He does most of his recording using a single Rode NT1-A and a Focusrite preamp. You'll find an example taken from one of his albums here: http://www.waldenguitars.com/artists_mucklow.html Would it have sounded better with a Neumann or a Schoeps? Probably......... but would most people have noticed the difference? Probably not. Even some top producers use Rode microphones. If you check out post #16 in this thread, you'll find Bruce Swedien explaining how the Rode NT4 is frequently his first choice when recording acoustic guitar: http://www.gearslutz.com/board/bruce...crophones.html I also have a pair of affordable Chinese-built Superlux S241 SDC's, which are very respectable. There is an example of an entire track recorded exclusively with Superlux microphones here: http://www.superlux.us/demo.html By all means try more expensive microphones if you can afford to, but please don't let anyone convince you that you HAVE to use an expensive microphone to produce a professional quality recording. Paul |
#32
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Paul,
Have you heard your instrument recorded by a Neumann or Schoeps? Best Regards, Ty Ford |
#33
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Paul: I don't think this is an either/or argument. I want to know about both. I want to learn all I can about pro quality audio and then apply that knowledge with the best gear I can afford. A four-figure mic probably isn't on my horizon but I still like to hear about it - and I like to hear about the Rodes too.
Who's winning the argument? I declare you both winners for taking the time to share your experiences with everybody else on the forum |
#34
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Quote:
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However if ones goal are to eventually move to more a serious level of personal and/or especially commercial . Than the council of Ty's and Chris observations might be well taken. Quote:
ALSO, lets not forget the OP was about doing a shoot out on a $3,000.00 guitar. AND therein lies a humorous paradox that periodically pops up. Many acoustic guitar players already have expensive guitars or understand the cost to value ratio of multi thousand dollar guitars, yet fail to equate that same cost to value ratio to recording or live equipment. - Quote:
Because what Ty and Chris and others are saying is that, what will actually get "good results" first and Foremost, involves numerous variables like Player, Style,Room, Mic, Pre, Converters etc.etc. Thus the money spent to Experiment may actually be the wiser move in the long run. Rather than going thru the exercise of repeatedly buying cheap being dissatisfied and eventually spending as much or more than to simply start experimenting/ trying or renting first, and then making a more informed purchase once. Quote:
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buy less- buy more wisely.
__________________
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Sonoma 14.4 |
#35
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It's a lot more fun to play a $3,000 guitar into a $100 microphone than to play a $100 guitar into a $3,000 microphone!
And that $3,000 guitar will sound good most anywhere you care to play. The whole idea of a buying or renting thousand-dollar-class microphones is predicated on a considerable effort and expense to create a great-sounding room. But the point is well taken that if you're producing "professional" quality recorded content there's a lot of questions it makes sense to ask beyond which $200 microphone will sound better when pointed at your guitar. I'll make one other semi-serious observation. If you're going as far as renting microphones, why not just rent a studio and a recording engineer while you're at it?
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Grabbed his jacket Put on his walking shoes Last seen, six feet under Singing the I've Wasted My Whole Life Blues ---Warren Malone "Whole Life Blues" |
#36
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Brent says: The whole idea of a buying or renting thousand-dollar-class microphones is predicated on a considerable effort and expense to create a great-sounding room.
And I gotta disagree with you to some degree. The WHOLE POINT of the cmc641 is that it's a supercardioid, so it ignores a lot of the room. And it does so in ways that make what you record sound a lot better than any other SD mic I have ever heard. Ty Ford |
#37
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I don't doubt that my guitars would sound better with more expensive microphones. However, I can achieve more than adequate results on cheaper models....... and afford to have several different ones to cover the various options I need. In owning my own I also have the flexibility to record as and when I want to. Like Brent, I would prefer to spend most of my available money on good guitars, because a good guitar will always sound better on a microphone that represents good value (eg a Rode) than a poor guitar will on an expensive microphone........ and I'll have more fun in the process of playing it! As I said, there is plenty of merit in what you're saying. Equally, though, I hope you will see that for many readers your approach is not a realistic option. I don't feel that you have properly acknowledged this. Paul |
#38
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We all have our dreams and we all have our (constrained) abilities to realize those dreams...
Some people with half a dozen lovely and expensive guitars in their living room dream of a seventh and and eighth and so on. Others are content with one lovely and not-so-expensive guitar (me). Some dream of a mic locker that can make any acoustic instrument sound like itself (or better!) on tape. Others dream of being able to make a recording that captures their playing fairly accurately using gear that costs less than a weekend at a fancy resort. This discussion has a little something for every dream, it seems.
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Grabbed his jacket Put on his walking shoes Last seen, six feet under Singing the I've Wasted My Whole Life Blues ---Warren Malone "Whole Life Blues" |
#39
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Aloha Brent - Well Said
Aloha Brent,
Very Well Said. Different Strokes! Question: Where does the poem at the bottom of your posts come from? Mahalo, alohachris PS: Try out a CMC641 just for fun sometime. It changed my ears & my musical life. -alohachris- |
#40
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Here's a YouTube of him doing it live, don't watch it when you're in a crying mood. The verse that starts Quote:
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Grabbed his jacket Put on his walking shoes Last seen, six feet under Singing the I've Wasted My Whole Life Blues ---Warren Malone "Whole Life Blues" |
#41
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Paul,
I do think you're being a little sticky about not renting one, but I don't know (and don't need to know) your personal financial status. I'm very sorry. My point is that unless you've heard what one of these sounds like, you can't really go on about how good another mic is because you don't have a solid basis for comparison. Have you inquired as to what it would cost to rent one over there? How much would it cost? I just get the feeling that you are digging in your heels as an exercise in principle and cutting off your nose to spite your face. Sorry if that saying doesn't translate well. It's something we say here in the US to indicate that someone disadvantages him/herself in order to do harm to an adversary. I see/read a lot of "Here's a Great Mic" comments on forums and it makes me shake my head because many times I know what that mic sounds like and where one can find a better one, sometimes for even LESS money. The SP-1, comes to mind. It's not a Schoeps. It's not a Neumann. It costs $50 USD. It should cost a lot more. Brent, I don't have a deep locker of costly mics and I own one good acoustic guitar, one near-enough good 12 string and a nice semi acoustic Tele. I'm a believer that a few good things are enough. And actually some nasty sounding acoustic guitars really do better with a lo-fi mic. A ribbon mic can do wonders to tame them. Best Regards, Ty Ford |
#42
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(Admittedly in a very good room) It was "Holy molely" this thing sounds great!! and I don't suck quite as bad as I thought. Quote:
__________________
Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Sonoma 14.4 |
#43
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Right on the money! I am dreaming about the CMC641. I'll have to do a search when I get home and see if someone has a soundclip using this mic in a home recording set up.
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"Dreams are the answers to questions that we haven't figured out how to ask." - Mulder |
#44
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Aloha Sage RE: CMC641 clips
Aloha Sage,
RE: Sharing original & copyrighted music online? I don't do it. There are many great reasons for me not to do it as I see it. I share opinions, ideas & experiences about gear, but no music. However, here are some clips from Doug Young, using his CMC641's. The first clip, in playing his beautiful original piece, "Missing You," Doug is using a CMC641, stacked together with another CMC6 - but this time using a CK8 capsule for Mid-Side configuration. Listen to the clarity & directness on that beautiful Cedar/Koa Ryan guitar: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0Bbgucd7K4 In the second example, Doug play's several little pieces & runs to capture & demonstrate the sound of a very nice Lowden "Pierre Bensusan" Adi/Hondo RW he's reviewing for AGF (scroll down to the video). Even though this is an mp3. file & probably further compressed to work as an insert in the AGF video format, the reason that guitar sounds so good ....is because of the spaced pair of CMC641's that Doug uses to capture its natural sound. Listen to how it captures the balance & sustain of that great guitar: http://www.acguitar.com/article/defa...rticleid=25665 Even in mp3. listening through computer speakers, you can tell how amazing those mic's are on acoustic guitar. In person, with a lil room treatment & just about ANY pro mic preamp? It's simply astonishing - so smooth & detailed without that edginess that most cheap Chinese SD's exhibit, & completely neutral w/o coloration! Ya gotta work a bit to find the sweet spot though with a CMC641 because it is a narrow hypercardioid. Hope that helps, Sage. I know it won't help the OP or anyone else here, but what the heck. And thanks to Doug for sharing his music on Youtube & AGF using his CMC641's. alohachris Last edited by alohachris; 01-26-2011 at 07:11 PM. |
#45
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I wasn't asking for one of your masterpieces, just a G C D progression to hear the mic. You ain't kidding. These clips sure do sound wonderful. I'll keep my eye out for a good deal and start buying lottery tickets. Who knows I just might sound like like Doug Young playing his Ryan. You and others have led me to the iMac/Apogee Duet combo. I know you know your gear and really appreciate your way of sharing your knowledge and experience in a generous, non-condescending manner. So there you go folks! Whether or not these mics are worth it is up to individual goals and circumstances. They sure sound a lot better than what I've got but the fact that I still can't afford them remains the same. Thank you Chris and thank you OP for your patience.
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"Dreams are the answers to questions that we haven't figured out how to ask." - Mulder Last edited by Sage97; 01-26-2011 at 11:31 PM. |