Rainsong CH-OM soundboard's flexibility under strings tension.

[gerardo1000]

Jon, your observation about a taller saddle exercising more torque is very interesting. My Rainsong has a "perfect" neck angle , measured with the wooden guitars standard, while the three RS that I tested at Huber and Breese had a different neck angle,the top of the saddle instead of being around 1 inch from the soundboard, was visibly lower. May be this is the reason why their soundboards did not show any dip or bumps and mine does... interesting. On the other hand, the action on my Rainsong is perfect (6/64 low E and 4/64 high E) and the neck relief is minimal with no strings buzz.
As many forum members have said, I guess that it is just a matter of getting adjusted to the fact that this is a carbon fiber guitar and it follows different construction rules.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by gerardo1000

Jon, your observation about a taller saddle exercising more torque is very interesting. My Rainsong has a "perfect" neck angle , measured with the wooden guitars standard, while the three RS that I tested at Huber and Breese had a different neck angle,the top of the saddle instead of being around 1 inch from the soundboard, was visibly lower. May be this is the reason why their soundboards did not show any dip or bumps and mine does... interesting. On the other hand, the action on my Rainsong is perfect (6/64 low E and 4/64 high E) and the neck relief is minimal with no strings buzz.
As many forum members have said, I guess that it is just a matter of getting adjusted to the fact that this is a carbon fiber guitar and it follows different construction rules.

The nice thing is that the guitar's action, neck relief and neck angle will likely remain unchanged through decades of play when using the same guage/tension strings. If you should go to a medium-guage string set, you'll likely increase your action and neck relief by only a couple of thousandths of an inch. This what I noticed on my long-gone 2010 RainSong CO-DR1000N2.

[chistrummer]

Originally Posted by gerardo1000

Can't return it. Ted at La Guitar Sales has a 3 days return time frame. I've had the guitar for ten days.

Originally Posted by gerardo1000

Jon, your observation about a taller saddle exercising more torque is very interesting. My Rainsong has a "perfect" neck angle , measured with the wooden guitars standard, while the three RS that I tested at Huber and Breese had a different neck angle,the top of the saddle instead of being around 1 inch from the soundboard, was visibly lower. May be this is the reason why their soundboards did not show any dip or bumps and mine does... interesting. On the other hand, the action on my Rainsong is perfect (6/64 low E and 4/64 high E) and the neck relief is minimal with no strings buzz.
As many forum members have said, I guess that it is just a matter of getting adjusted to the fact that this is a carbon fiber guitar and it follows different construction rules.

If you bought it from Ted than I am certain that your guitar meets or exceeds Rainsong QC standards. You don't become the largest Rainsong dealer in the world, in fact the largest dealer of carbon guitars by shipping faulty guitars to customers. Additionally I'm sure both Ted and Rainsong will have your back should something come up down the road.

In any event, you say the action on your guitar is perfect so perhaps a little less inspection and a little more playing is in order.

[jonfields45]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

The amount of dishing varies but, from my experience, it's most pronounced on the Unidirectional-topped models. A few years ago, I raised the top-dishing issue with RainSong, suggesting they change their process to ensure a slight convex contour to their tops, but if dishing is still out there, then they haven't done anything about my suggestion--as if they'd listen to me anyway. At any rate, although I love RainSong guitars, I haven't owned one in about three years and will first consider Emerald for my next carbon-guitar purchase.

Some time in the last few hundred years it was figured out that a "flat top" guitar was dramatically longer lasting without a flat top (slower deformation over time and some extra resistance to low humidity cracking) and not any (significantly???) worse sounding. Giving RainSong the benefit of the doubt, lets assume they tried a radius top at some point and decided flat sounded about the same. If you tour the Martin factory (30 minutes from my home) the tooling they have for their top radius is quite staggering. The curvature is in their small part CNC, vacuum glue surfaces, post kurfing side sander, and probably elsewhere. The sturdy clamps used to (force) fit bridges and neck extensions don't look like a good solution for composite build ups which don't need to be designed with crushing strength as a primary attribute (at least once the guitar is assembled -- at Martin the clamps never touch spruce). I also wonder about the peeling resistance of CF buildups and not quite identical glued parts (loose braces and lifting bridges are pretty common wood guitar issues). All the CF guitars I've played were truly flat (CA/RainSong), or had the bridge as part of the top mold (Emerald).

Making a RainSong conform to our wood guitar learning (all about not buying a guitar that will shortly need a neck reset or crack) might not sound as good and certainly is not a small tooling change. I have not tried every CF guitar out there, but for the ones I have it is clear to me RainSong has an architecture for guitar building that produces a loud guitar that sounds really good to me.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by jonfields45

Some time in the last few hundred years it was figured out that a "flat top" guitar was dramatically longer lasting without a flat top (slower deformation over time and some extra resistance to low humidity cracking) and not any (significantly???) worse sounding. Giving RainSong the benefit of the doubt, lets assume they tried a radius top at some point and decided flat sounded about the same. If you tour the Martin factory (30 minutes from my home) the tooling they have for their top radius is quite staggering. The curvature is in their small part CNC, vacuum glue surfaces, post kurfing side sander, and probably elsewhere. The sturdy clamps used to (force) fit bridges and neck extensions don't look like a good solution for composite build ups which don't need to be designed with crushing strength as a primary attribute (at least once the guitar is assembled). I also wonder about the peeling resistance of CF buildups and not quite identical glued parts. All the CF guitars I've played were truly flat (CA/RainSong), or had the bridge as part of the top mold (Emerald).

Making a RainSong conform to our wood guitar learning (all about not buying a guitar that will shortly need a neck reset or crack) might not sound as good and certainly is not a small tooling change. I have not tried every CF guitar out there, but for the ones I have it is clear to me RainSong has an architecture for guitar building that produces a loud guitar that sounds really good to me.

Jon,

RainSongs do sound good to me too and I was the original RainSong fanboy on the now defunct MacNichol Carbon Guitar Forum. Being a machinist/tool-maker, I tend to notice dimensions and shapes in agonizing detail. The top dishing has been evident on every one of the dozen or so top-end (carbon models) RainSongs I've owned. My only issue with the RainSong tops is cosmetic-related as it bugs the heck out of me. Yes, CA guitars, at least the three I've bought and returned (for other issues), were visually flat across their tops. It's been stated by Emerald on this forum that they build-in a bit of a convex contour in their guitar tops and this appeals to me from a cosmetic standpoint. The top-dishing is normal for all-carbon RainSongs up to 2014, the last model-year RainSong I bought. Perhaps, they've taken my suggestion in to consideration and modified their build process but from the recent experience of Gerardo, maybe not all guitars come through with flat-contour tops? At any rate, as I've mentioned above, RainSongs sound and play great and that should be the main or only consideration for players considering buying one.

Regards,

Ken - SpruceTop

[chistrummer]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

At any rate, as I've mentioned above, RainSongs sound and play great and that should be the main or only consideration for players considering buying one.

Amen, brother.