One Tube Combo to Rule Them All?

[wrathfuldeity]

OP if you want to stay within the realm of the Milkman Half-Pint, do a tweed champ clone, but with a more efficient spkr vs the Milkman Half-Pint with 2 6v6's in parallel. The parallel 6v6's is for headroom...and you can also get headroom by spkr efficiency. Just saying that there is a respectable speaker rabbit hole to be explored.

For example, I've recently had the good fortune via CL to score a mint champ clone by MuchXS. It has a old Magnavox? 6x9 spkr and for a small fraction of the price of the Milkman Half-Pint. It is currently #1 and every bit as good, if not better than any tweed champs I've ever played or demoed. Due to my experience with rolling spkrs I suspect that part of this amp's charm is the spkr...it is surprisingly loud, very nice bass end and spectrum to the top without ice, does not flub. Anyway hangs very well with my 1949 pp6v6 like tweed tv deluxe and se 50's se6L6 like tweed Princeton.

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by wrathfuldeity

OP if you want to stay within the realm of the Milkman Half-Pint, do a tweed champ clone, but with a more efficient spkr vs the Milkman Half-Pint with 2 6v6's in parallel. The parallel 6v6's is for headroom...and you can also get headroom by spkr efficiency. Just saying that there is a respectable speaker rabbit hole to be explored.

For example, I've recently had the good fortune via CL to score a mint champ clone by MuchXS. It has a old Magnavox? 6x9 spkr and for a small fraction of the price of the Milkman Half-Pint. It is currently #1 and every bit as good, if not better than any tweed champs I've ever played or demoed. Due to my experience with rolling spkrs I suspect that part of this amp's charm is the spkr...it is surprisingly loud, very nice bass end and spectrum to the top without ice, does not flub. Anyway hangs very well with my 1949 pp6v6 like tweed tv deluxe and se 50's se6L6 like tweed Princeton.

"Just saying that there is a respectable speaker rabbit hole to be explored." Arrrggghhh! Seriously, some great info here and in the preceding posts. I've gotten (or been willingly led) somewhat afield from my original question re: whether amps and pickups had to be aligned to be "right" (they don't).

I will get a tube amp someday. After Steve's excellent pitch, I even checked into the MF site with the thought of trying a V5, "just to see," but found they were sold out of the little buggers. Saved, for now.

I went through my s/s amps again last evening and was again very pleasantly surprised at several warm/strong tube-like tones I was able to get from Mustang 2 with the upgraded speaker when set to several of the Fender-type amps - nice full/grinding cleans with little tweaking. Via vids and good headphones, I compared to the ones we've been discussing and didn't find the Mustang all that wanting in the tone dept, and it was superior to several, so I'll live with the Mustang for now and wait for the V5s to come back into stock "just to see."

Thanks to all for the info.

[moon]

Originally Posted by ChrisN

is there kind of a compromise tube combo that comfortably covers both singles/HBs for clean/mid-dirty and sounds great with both?

The Milkman amp in the vid you posted has got an old-style tweedy, slightly splatty overdriven sound. I like it but it's a "character" sound. A strong character is great when you want a particular sound but if versatility is the key a more neutral sounding amp might be better.

That made me think of Matchless. In general they tend to have very tight, clear, well-defined sounds - partly due to the huge, muscular transformers. They've got a great natural overdriven tone and of course a pedal or two could help you create a particular type of tone.

In this video the Spitfire makes a fine noise with both humbuckers and single coils:



Any amp which can do a similar job - not too coloured, clear, tightly-defined sounds - should also be quite versatile.

[ChrisN]

Originally Posted by moon

The Milkman amp in the vid you posted has got an old-style tweedy, slightly splatty overdriven sound. I like it but it's a "character" sound. A strong character is great when you want a particular sound but if versatility is the key a more neutral sounding amp might be better.

That made me think of Matchless. In general they tend to have very tight, clear, well-defined sounds - partly due to the huge, muscular transformers. They've got a great natural overdriven tone and of course a pedal or two could help you create a particular type of tone.

In this video the Spitfire makes a fine noise with both humbuckers and single coils:
Any amp which can do a similar job - not too coloured, clear, tightly-defined sounds - should also be quite versatile.

Wow. Those sound great. I like that Lightning, too, though it's considered "British" in voicing. I'd seen Matchless used as a reference in modeling amps, but hadn't explored them. Not cheap, but worthy of a closer look. Thanks

[paulp1960]

This guy (Johan Segeborn) has done a series of videos where he plays various guitars through a Fender tweed champ re-issue plugged into a 2x12 vintage cab. He sounds good to me anyway:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LnjIbHWm3yI

One of the reasons I bought a tweed champ clone kit, I just have to build it now.

[moon]

You should! That's a fantastic, classic guitar amp. It's also a very simple circuit which should be easy to build.

[roylor4]

When I think American and British tones I think Fender amp & a Strat and Vox and a Tele, perhaps an Orange. I do believe that certain amps and guitars "play nice" with each other.

The Egnator amps do sound great and can capture both American and British voicings well. Tubes are a huge part of tone shaping as are speakers (to a lesser degree IMHO). Classic Fender tones are usually 6V6 or 6L6 and British amps lean more toward EL34 and EL84's.

To satisfy my love of both tones I have a Vox MV50 AC (think AC30 tone) and a Vox MV50 Rock (alot like a Tweed deluxe) paired with a cab. I do tend to favor the more "Fendery" vibe of the Rock head.

I got the Rock head on MF as a SDOTD for $120, best 120 bucks I ever spent, truly.

There are other Boutique amps that can provide a wide variety of tone voicings, but as you see with the Milkman, they do not come cheap. Test drive the MV heads if you get a chance, they are impressive.

[wrathfuldeity]

Originally Posted by ChrisN

"Just saying that there is a respectable speaker rabbit hole to be explored." Arrrggghhh! Seriously, some great info here and in the preceding posts. I've gotten (or been willingly led) somewhat afield from my original question re: whether amps and pickups had to be aligned to be "right" (they don't).

Apologies, didn't mean to throw you in the rabbit hole. Granted I have a bias for low watt simple tweed circuits. I just LOVE this little Muchxs tweed champ with the oddball spkr. But there are a fair amount of little old oddball amps out there that are crazy good for very little cash. For example, picked up a silvertone 1301 (5c1) in a $50 spkr trade, se el84 record player for $25 that blows away any of Blues Jr types and is to die for with a gretch reso for inde-americana, another se6L6 record player for $65 + bench time that is a Princeton NR on steroids.


So to your original question, I concur...they don't need to be right...but some are more right than others. That being said, for home use. its hard to beat a simple tweed like circuit, where less is more. IMHO simple circuits really let the git's (and curated pedals) characteristics shine through.

So you being in Seattle, whenever in town, I make a stop at Emerald City Guitars. Many times there are some very nice low watt tweeds and oddballs to drool over...always beyond my budget but fun to test drive and get a feel for these simple little amps.

[PTony]

Originally Posted by roylor4

When I think American and British tones I think Fender amp & a Strat and Vox and a Tele, perhaps an Orange. I do believe that certain amps and guitars "play nice" with each other.

The Egnator amps do sound great and can capture both American and British voicings well. Tubes are a huge part of tone shaping as are speakers (to a lesser degree IMHO). Classic Fender tones are usually 6V6 or 6L6 and British amps lean more toward EL34 and EL84's.

To satisfy my love of both tones I have a Vox MV50 AC (think AC30 tone) and a Vox MV50 Rock (alot like a Tweed deluxe) paired with a cab. I do tend to favor the more "Fendery" vibe of the Rock head.

I got the Rock head on MF as a SDOTD for $120, best 120 bucks I ever spent, truly.

There are other Boutique amps that can provide a wide variety of tone voicings, but as you see with the Milkman, they do not come cheap. Test drive the MV heads if you get a chance, they are impressive.

+1 on this as well. I have the MV50 clean on my “fly rig”. Seriously impressive! I often get compliments on my tone when playing out. The features offered in these little heads is truly remarkable. ESP considering the price point.

[MikeBmusic]

Steve Howe was mentioned previously ^^^. These days for live shows he uses a pair of Line 6 DT amps (tube, designed by Bogner) which do a good job of emulating the Marshall or Fender sound as needed.

[M Sarad]

The Milkman looks and sounds good. I have been a fan of Tweed Deluxes since the 70s when I used two, connected with a DID stereo analog delay. Sold when I was married and going to school, they were replaced with a ‘58 Deluxe and a Victoria. I love the tone of both with my Strats and Teles. When I play outdoors, I decided to use my Tech 21 Classic 60 Watt due to power problems vis long extension cords.
I recently acquired a 1980 Black face Deluxe Reverb. Turned up to 3, it is far louder than a Deluxe. It disentangle start to break up until 5, then it is seriously loud.

[KevWind]

Seems as if we are pretty lucky today with the amazing amount of choices and options available in a widespread of price points from several hundred to several thousand

With everything from digital modeling like the Line 6 DT 25 mentioned . @ $1k price

To having using different analog circuits and tube selection like mentioned Egnater Tweaker that reconfigures the tubes @ $600


To this offering at the upper end price range $3400 From the boutique Mfg. 3rd Power , which has now gone to one "Do it all " model named "The Kitchen Sink"
and has two clompete different sets of preamp tubes and multiple circuit configurations
http://3rdpower.com/#1466057084458-8...-6d3c233e-dcd1

It is a bit overwhelming at first but what a time to be alive

[JeffreyAK]

There are so many different amps, sounding different with every guitar and to every ear, that I'm not sure there's an answer other than to haul your guitar to many different shops and try a bunch of them while listening with your ear. I'm personally happy with my Strat/Marshall combo, and can point to a long list of top players who are too, but that doesn't necessarily mean you'll be happy. Add in effects and it's an entire galaxy of sonic options.

That said, the clean sound of my Marshall is never really totally clean, so if a totally clean sound is important to you then at least a JVM Marshall might not be ideal. I can't speak to other models in the Marshall line, but the JVMs are always at least a tiny bit dirty, with single coils or humbuckers.

[gimme789]

My main amp these days is an Egnator Rebel 30 1x12. It has both EL84 and 6V6 tubes which you can dial in all of one type, or a mix. Also has built in power adjust from 1 to 30 watts for hitting the sweet spot in smaller venues. Two channels allow switching from beautiful cleans with nice headroom, to really nice overdriven sounds great for blues and rock. Could probably even do metal with a pedal. I play both single coils and HB guitars through it, and it is not possible to dial up a bad sound with this amp. I did have to replace the output transformer a little while ago, but it was worth every penny - I love this amp and never even think about replacing it as it can cover all genres without having to haul around a huge rig.

http://www.egnateramps.com/EgnaterPr...ebel30112.html

[kathyson]

Carr Amps. The "Sportsman" is amazing for what it can do.
Or, The Carr Mercury V/ 0 to 4 watts. 16 watts full power. Hand built in NC