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  #16  
Old 09-12-2016, 09:52 AM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Originally Posted by Martin Maniac View Post
Here's an interesting experiment with a 12 string guitar going thru the mastering program.....

http://www.soundclick.com/player/sin...&q=hi&newref=1
Sounds really, really, bad.
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  #17  
Old 09-12-2016, 10:14 AM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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I know. But none the less it's an interesting experiment. The guitar playing is bad, the recording is way over processed...just an experiment. Like I said, some of my test recordings didn't come out well. A couple were really bad. I must have done about 25 test mixes last night.

My new HS8 monitors are coming today. I'm looking forward to hearing my test recordings on them.
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  #18  
Old 09-12-2016, 03:35 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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Interesting discovery regarding my levels...after poking around in Sonar's mixer, I found an output buss that was set low...it wasn't the main output, but still inline, I'm not sure why it's there....once I raised the level to a normal setting, I had plenty of volume....the new monitors make Sonar sound great !!! Very easy to spot problems....
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  #19  
Old 09-12-2016, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Martin Maniac View Post
Interesting discovery regarding my levels...after poking around in Sonar's mixer, I found an output buss that was set low...it wasn't the main output, but still inline, I'm not sure why it's there....once I raised the level to a normal setting, I had plenty of volume....the new monitors make Sonar sound great !!! Very easy to spot problems....
An output bus to what?
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  #20  
Old 09-12-2016, 03:55 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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An output bus to what?
To the output....I double checked the routing in Sonar's mixer and there's about 4-5 buss controls that effect the output's level. When you click on one, a different level meter pops up on the other side of the screen with different levels, causing all kinds of confusion. It's like playing a shell game. I didn't put all these busses in there, I don't know why they are there. It's funny, when you adjust on level on one buss, it controls other level meters as well. There seems to be a main control that goes into the ProChannel section, then slips out when you click on another level meter...very confusing.

I put the same track into Audition and checked that mixer....very simple, you just have your track meters and one main output buss...night and day difference.

With these new monitors I can troubleshoot problems right away.
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  #21  
Old 09-12-2016, 04:49 PM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
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Originally Posted by Martin Maniac View Post
To the output....I double checked the routing in Sonar's mixer and there's about 4-5 buss controls that effect the output's level. When you click on one, a different level meter pops up on the other side of the screen with different levels, causing all kinds of confusion. It's like playing a shell game. I didn't put all these busses in there, I don't know why they are there. It's funny, when you adjust on level on one buss, it controls other level meters as well. There seems to be a main control that goes into the ProChannel section, then slips out when you click on another level meter...very confusing.

I put the same track into Audition and checked that mixer....very simple, you just have your track meters and one main output buss...night and day difference.

With these new monitors I can troubleshoot problems right away.
What does the input and output structure of these busses indicate? I'd think you'd wanna get your fundamental gain structure under control before you start auditioning new monitors?
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  #22  
Old 09-12-2016, 05:07 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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Well, in Sonar's mixer, I counted 8 different level meters in a mix that only had two tracks. And the weird part was, when I'd adjust one meter, the other meter would change. I'd try to delete a few of them and the whole track would disappear. It's no wonder I was having problems getting decent mixes in Sonar.

In Audition's mixer, with the same two tracks, I have two level meters and a main output. That's it, easy peasy.
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  #23  
Old 09-12-2016, 05:27 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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I'm auditioning the new monitors with commercial cd's, sound files I have in Sonar and Audition, and some music off the internet....They are all telling me what is possible and what I should shoot for in my recordings. The recordings from Peter Gabriel's studio sound fabulous, mine in comparison mostly sound like trash except for a couple. The Neumann mics are really sounding good, the other mics, not so much. Recordings that I thought sounded good before, sound bad now. The new monitors do not lie. I must have done 50 sound checks today...I have a whole backlog of recordings I needed to check, what an eye opening experience this has been. My old speakers sound like trash compared to these new ones. Night and day difference.
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  #24  
Old 09-12-2016, 06:29 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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Now that I have the level situation under control, I compared my files of the Neumann mics recording A/B'ed with the original vrs mastered with the AAMS software....the levels were about the same now, however the mastered track has more depth and a richer tone thru out the recordings and really shines on the last strum of the guitar. The EQ adjustments in AAMS seemed to have helped. I'm getting there.

The new monitors really show off a difference of sound quality between the mics.
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  #25  
Old 09-12-2016, 06:56 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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I ran a vocal track thru the AAMS program and ended up with a really nice sounding vocal track. It was apparent that it added EQ and compression, in just the right amounts. It was a little bit louder. It's amazing that I can now hear these differences with the new monitors. Very apparent. I've never had speakers this accurate before. They show everything.
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  #26  
Old 09-12-2016, 07:05 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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One thing I found out about the AAMS software is that it works better when you put in .wav files. That's what the developer recommends. I put in a few MP3 files and they didn't turn out so good. Maybe that's the problem I'm running into. Some of my recordings are mixed to MP3's. I'm going to have to pay attention to this.
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  #27  
Old 09-12-2016, 07:18 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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The Shure SM7b sounds really good on vocals, thru the new monitors.
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  #28  
Old 09-12-2016, 09:07 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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I got the problems in Sonar ironed out. When all I had was two mono files, the mixer had 9 level controls opened up in the mixer, which was very confusing, as they all had to be set just right. One of the other Sonar users suggested that I close the Pro Channel box, and delete the busses I didn't need. This cleaned up the mixer very well and now I should be able to export mixes at decent volumes. That was definitely a problem.
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  #29  
Old 09-12-2016, 09:25 PM
Joseph Hanna Joseph Hanna is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Maniac View Post
Well, in Sonar's mixer, I counted 8 different level meters in a mix that only had two tracks. And the weird part was, when I'd adjust one meter, the other meter would change. I'd try to delete a few of them and the whole track would disappear. It's no wonder I was having problems getting decent mixes in Sonar.

In Audition's mixer, with the same two tracks, I have two level meters and a main output. That's it, easy peasy.
Now you've got me confused. We're throwin' around terms at random and it's making things a bit...tangled Generally speaking and in most every DAW you have A) "Tracks" and those tracks can be audio (mono or stereo) and in some cases instrument tracks which are consolidated midi tracks B) "midi tracks" C) "Aux returns" which can serve a variety of functions most commonly used as FX returns or sub-master groups D) A primary "Master Output".

Busses aren't tracks. They represent interconnectivity routing feeds. Where most busses are labeled as such and primarily refer to "software" routing some tracks may contain a device known as an insert which is in short a hardware buss.

Meters can't be adjusted. They reacte to gain changes but nothing in and of themselves is adjustable unless of course you're adjusting scales. Deleting a meter (if that's even possible) wouldn't delete a track.

As mentioned here before a fundamental understanding of input sensitivity, gain structures, output levels, where and when to adjust, where and when not to adjust, any outboard hardware including pre-amps on the front end and powered speakers on the back end and metering (particularly as it pertains to digital scale) are all audio 101 necessities and although VERY easy to manage it seems wholely absent here.

Leaving those issues unmanaged and instead throwing mastering software at the resulting problems seems a really odd route to good audio.

Just trying to help and only my 2 cents.

Last edited by Joseph Hanna; 09-13-2016 at 07:29 AM.
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  #30  
Old 09-12-2016, 09:40 PM
Martin Maniac Martin Maniac is offline
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Well yes you're right, all levels in the audio chain are important. I'm haphazardly setting my Focusrite 18i8's levels controls so it doesn't produce hum and still gives a clean strong signal. This level seems to change with each test I do and different mics.

The problem in Sonar is that it's default mixer settings have many different level meters. They route the tracks into various busses to add effects to your whole mix. They have a preview buss, a metronome buss, ProChannel busses, Master buss and main output buss. All this baloney needs to be dealt with, either set all the meters, or delete the unneeded busses and you have a simple mixer. This is all set up by default, and is Sonar trying too hard to be everything to everybody. Clearing all these busses cleans it up nicely, problem is you have to do that with every new session. Having 8-9 busses all in your recording chain, just confuses everything and delivers countless mixing problems. I don't have these problems in Audition CS6.
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