Flaky buyers harm sellers

[fazool]

I have a really nice guitar up for sale. I've sold two to three dozen guitars in the past few years and I usually list them on AGF with a discount for members.

It's my way of 'giving back" to the AGF community and incentivizing people to buy a charter membership.

This recent guitar has been a fiasco.

I've had five people claim they want to buy it. Trying to "do the right thing", I immediately reserve the guitar for them and remove the listing from craigslist, reverb and eBay.

When the seller stops replying, changes their mind, backs out or otherwise changes their story, I have to re-list the guitar. This causes four problems:

1. ebay now charges an "insertion" fee every time you list something like this, so I pay an extra fee every time this happens, even if I don't ever sell it - I am out real cash
2. seeing it removed as sold all the "followers" on ebay and reverb assume it's sold and lose interest in it so I lose possible real buyers
3. during the removal period, I lose visibility to future possible real customers who would have seen it advertised but wont
4. during the downtime I lose exposure time of advertising and am behind several days of cash-in-hand time

And a lot of time these promising buyers are very low count members with ~2 posts so it is suspicious to me that they are scammers or "plants" trying to disrupt sales through AGF.

We've all had something change (I've had things change myself so I understand) but it seems like it has become the "norm" now. It is either malicious or inconsiderate or incredibly unlucky how often this has happened recently.

I don't know if something has changed in the online buyer's world or if this is a ridiculous coincidence of legitimate bad luck.

Either way, it harms the seller. My new approach and suggestion is keep things listed and assume it's not sold until the money actually clears in the bank.


I hate feeling like I can't trust anyone.

(I am not talking about people asking questions or people asking for a quote or negotiating a price. I'm talking about people who explicitly say "I will buy it" or "I agree and am buying it" or "consider it Sold - I am taking it" etc.

[Silurian]

Originally Posted by fazool

Either way, it harms the seller. My new approach and suggestion is keep things listed and assume it's not sold until the money actually clears in the bank.


.

This.

Look after your own interests.

[nitram]

Sorry for your wasted time and money. It's hard to do "the right thing" when some people aren't playing the game properly. I agree with your verdict.

[raysachs]

Originally Posted by fazool

Either way, it harms the seller. My new approach and suggestion is keep things listed and assume it's not sold until the money actually clears in the bank.

I don't buy or sell much here (although I have sold a couple of guitars and some smaller accessories), but I've bought and sold a lot of bicycle and camera gear over the past couple of decades, mostly through forums similar to this. And I've ALWAYS, probably going back 20 years or more, waited until I'd been paid before changing anything about the way the item was listed. If I have what sounds like a firm offer for something, but I haven't been paid yet, and another offer comes in, I'll let the person making the new offer know that I have an offer that I'm waiting to be paid for and let them know that if it should fall through, they're next in line for the item, or second or third in line, which is rare but has happened a couple of times. I've almost never had anything fall through, but I have once or twice and the next guy got the item.

I just figure it's not sold until it's SOLD, which means the transaction is complete from my end. Obviously, there's still the potential for problems with a dissatisfied buyer, getting PayPal involved (or eBay or reverb, if that's where it sold). I had one situation like that where I sold a camera lens and the buyer didn't think it was as mint as I claimed. He returned it, I refunded his money, and I could never EVER see the flaws he described to me in great detail. But nevertheless, he wasn't satisfied with it and given how close to never stuff like that happens, I'd have rather dealt with the hassle of re-selling the item than have someone out there with a bad taste in their mouth about dealing with me. The next buyer loved it!

-Ray

Originally Posted by fazool

I've sold two to three dozen guitars in the past few years

This recent guitar has been a fiasco. I've had five people claim they want to buy it. ... the seller stops replying, changes their mind, backs out or otherwise changes their story

No one's word is trustworthy, it seems.

If you've sold upwards of 36 guitars online, you're going to get the occasional flake. But it seems that in your case, the good transactions far outnumber the bad.

The policy you've adopted to not pull a listing until the sale is complete seems like the best course of action. I think the idea that "no one's word is trustworthy" is a vast overstatement, brought on more by your recent frustration than long-term experience. At least I hope so...

GLWS!

[fazool]

Originally Posted by Willie Voltaire

If you've sold upwards of 36 guitars online, you're going to get the occasional flake. But it seems that in your case, the good transactions far outnumber the bad.

The policy you've adopted to not pull a listing until the sale is complete seems like the best course of action. I think the idea that "no one's word is trustworthy" is a vast overstatement, brought on more by your recent frustration than long-term experience. At least I hope so...

GLWS!

Yes of course - I'm just frustrated and venting

After 34 years of selling guitars etc. I never take down the ad until the money is in my hand and the item is out the door. I think your new policy of keeping the ad up is totally fair. I've dealt with so many flakes over the years who have said "I'll take it!" and then disappear causing me to lose a potential sale. If I get multiple real offers on an item then first come, first served. IMHO the flakiness does seem to be getting worse.

[Earl49]

It's rather simple Fazool - the guitar stays listed until the cash arrives. If someone wants to place a hold on it, they need to send a non-refundable deposit of whatever amount you feel is appropriate.

[RedJoker]

It's actually never occurred to me to take a listing down simply because someone expresses interest. I simply tell any other interested parties that someone is ahead of them and I will contact them if that deal falls through.

I don't see how that as not 'doing the right thing.' Maybe I'm wrong?

[fazool]

Originally Posted by RedJoker

It's actually never occurred to me to take a listing down simply because someone expresses interest. I simply tell any other interested parties that someone is ahead of them and I will contact them if that deal falls through.

I don't see how that as not 'doing the right thing.' Maybe I'm wrong?

Well, let's say I "sell" a guitar on AGF and am awaiting payment. Two hours later someone on Reverb or eBay buys the guitar. Now I have two people who bought the guitar, in good faith and I have to take it away from one of them.

[H165]

This problem works both ways. Good buyer sends money to flaky seller, and the whole thing then goes sideways. It can get real messy. It's one of the reasons I use an escrow service - to protect BOTH parties.

[FLRon]

I never consider anything sold until the money is in my account. Until then,all ads stay active just as if I hadn't found a buyer.

[DavidE]

No holds. I learned that lesson a long time ago.

[RP]

Originally Posted by fazool

...I've had five people claim they want to buy it. Trying to "do the right thing", I immediately reserve the guitar for them and remove the listing from craigslist, reverb and eBay....

(I am not talking about people asking questions or people asking for a quote or negotiating a price. I'm talking about people who explicitly say "I will buy it" or "I agree and am buying it" or "consider it Sold - I am taking it" etc.

Originally Posted by FLRon

I never consider anything sold until the money is in my account. Until then,all ads stay active just as if I hadn't found a buyer.

I agree with Ron and added boldface to the word "never." For me an item is "considered sold" only when I have funds in my hand (Craigslist) or in my PayPal account for long distance sales. Only a sizable deposit would "reserve" an expensive item I'm selling and then for a specified time period....

[RP]

Originally Posted by fazool

Well, let's say I "sell" a guitar on AGF and am awaiting payment. Two hours later someone on Reverb or eBay buys the guitar. Now I have two people who bought the guitar, in good faith and I have to take it away from one of them.

It should only take minutes, not hours, for an AGF member to pay you using PayPal. If you're still awaiting payment after several hours, then I'd say the guitar goes to the Reverb/Ebay buyer....