Schatten HFN south of bridge pins

[Cellomangler]

I see where all the schatten HFN installs show the pickup below the saddle on the soundboard. I have a Takamine palathetic pick up there and would like to put the HFN south of the bridge pins (if the headstock was facing north). Has anyone use this placement or believe I'll run into signal discrepancies?

[Ten]

I haven’t tried that far off, but I did notice a thin vs. thicker sound when playing with the placement on mine. String imbalance for me was ultimately resolved by removing the putty from the middle foot. Not sure how much that may also come into play putting it that far back. If you use the putty it’s easily testable and reversible though.

[Cellomangler]

I need to find my dental mirror and take a good look at the soundboard. There could possibly be enough real estate in front of the palathetic pick up. Bottom line is I'll just have to experiment. On other guitars I already have the k&k, a McIntyre feather, a DiMarzio black angel piezo, an LR baggs lyric and an LR baggs I beam. I often combine passive with active systems because I prefer to have a passive back up and also some sound systems just sound better with a passive USB piezo - less brittle right off the get-go without EQ. This is a new Tak I'm dealing with now and I may have to alter the strap button preamp jack to access the ring for installing the second passive pickup. I do these sorts of mods all the time as well as minor guitar repairs (if you call refrets minor). An interesting experiment would be to put in a switch where I could run the passive Schatten HFN through the preamp instead of the palathetic pickup or run the HFN passive out the ring of the output Jack. Of course it would be sheer luck if the EQ curve of that preamp was compatible with the HFN.

[Ten]

I’d be curious to know the results of your testing, please let us know if you get a chance.

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by Cellomangler

I need to find my dental mirror and take a good look at the soundboard. There could possibly be enough real estate in front of the palathetic pick up. Bottom line is I'll just have to experiment. On other guitars I already have the k&k, a McIntyre feather, a DiMarzio black angel piezo, an LR baggs lyric and an LR baggs I beam. I often combine passive with active systems because I prefer to have a passive back up and also some sound systems just sound better with a passive USB piezo - less brittle right off the get-go without EQ. This is a new Tak I'm dealing with now and I may have to alter the strap button preamp jack to access the ring for installing the second passive pickup. I do these sorts of mods all the time as well as minor guitar repairs (if you call refrets minor). An interesting experiment would be to put in a switch where I could run the passive Schatten HFN through the preamp instead of the palathetic pickup or run the HFN passive out the ring of the output Jack. Of course it would be sheer luck if the EQ curve of that preamp was compatible with the HFN.

That's a very cool idea - the beauty of the putty is how easy it is to try different spots with the Schatten. I'll be following this with interest.

I presume you've checked bridge plate girth south of the pins to make sure there's room?

[TNO]

I seem to recall that someone here put theirs behind the bridge pins and it worked for them. I'm about to stick one in my Eastman E1SS-LTD and the saddle is so close to the bridge pins that I will offset the pickup towards the soundholejust a bit so it doesn't accidentally contact the string's ball end on the low E and A.

[Cellomangler]

I thought I'd post some pics to show the Takamine Palethetic placement as well as some Schatten options...
Here's the Palathetic pickup by itself. This photo is from the web but is identical to the placement in my EF740FS-TT:

Below are a couple of possible positions for a Schatten HFN passive:

And then I'm considering of just experimenting with the classical version of the Schatten since it offers more body contact:

And then there's this, the Schatten HFN for Selmer style guitars, which shows a much different contact. I'm supposing it's leaner in bass as the Gypsy style is generally leaner in bass, probably as to avoide muddying the fast jazz phrasings. If anything, I'm after more bass.

[Petty1818]

I have a Fishman Matrix in my guitar and due the UST wire coming out of the bottom of the saddle, I am unable to install the HFN in the correct/lining up the saddle position. I tried it closer to the sound hole and the tone was weak and hollow. I find the HFN to already be a bit low on bass so I feel as though it needs to be as close to the saddle line as possible to sound right. Just my opinion!

[Cellomangler]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I have a Fishman Matrix in my guitar and due the UST wire coming out of the bottom of the saddle, I am unable to install the HFN in the correct/lining up the saddle position. I tried it closer to the sound hole and the tone was weak and hollow. I find the HFN to already be a bit low on bass so I feel as though it needs to be as close to the saddle line as possible to sound right. Just my opinion!

Good info. I'll assume your location was similar to where I show mine in the picture? Also... I guess you ruled out the position below the bridge pins. It does make sense that it needs to be under the saddle, particularly for a passive system.
I rekon I'll just have to dive in and commit to a purchase so that I can experiment with the wires coming out the soundhole. Another option is something like this... the K&K Pure Mini combined with the K&K Hot Shot. (easy parallel wiring) Alrighty.

[Cellomangler]

One last idea before I'm booted off for absurdity. Like I said in an earlier post, I have the Dimarzio Black Angel Piezo installed in one acoustic. It's terrific. Very loud for a passive, warm with almost too much bass. Whatever I go with, I'll be able to utilize in something else if I choose not to put it in the Tak. Main thing with the Tak is if I could power it externally in an emergency. So here's a final config with the Dimarzio and honestly, it might work the best. Forgot to mention - the Dimarzio wants to be one with the soundboard. They give you hide glue. I used epoxy - a sacrilege.

[stevecuss]

Originally Posted by Cellomangler

One last idea before I'm booted off for absurdity. Like I said in an earlier post, I have the Dimarzio Black Angel Piezo installed in one acoustic. It's terrific. Very loud for a passive, warm with almost too much bass. Whatever I go with, I'll be able to utilize in something else if I choose not to put it in the Tak. Main thing with the Tak is if I could power it externally in an emergency. So here's a final config with the Dimarzio and honestly, it might work the best. Forgot to mention - the Dimarzio wants to be one with the soundboard. They give you hide glue. I used epoxy - a sacrilege.

Man, I'm loving the experimental mindset here - fantastic. My vote is to start with the HFN behind the pins. Seeing where the current pickup lives, putting HFN in front looks to me to be too far off the saddle.

Good luck! I look forward to hearing your thoughts on results!

[martingitdave]

I've been very interested in the DiMarzio piezo for some time. But, I have read nothing about it. Glad to hear you had a good experience. Perhaps that will be my next experiment. That said, all my guitars are now outfitted with K&K and they are working well enough. I guess I'd need a new guitar to experiment with. LOL

[GuitarLuva]

I tried the HFN in the location in question before and I certainly wouldn't recommend it. It's hard to describe but it sounded weird, like distant. I also had it on the opposite side about the same distance when I had a Baggs Anthem in there. It was better there but still not recommended. It really needs to go as close as you can get it under the saddle slot.

[Cellomangler]

Originally Posted by GuitarLuva

It really needs to go as close as you can get it under the saddle slot.

That makes sense seeing how it is already a transducer set up on a little platform with a bit of distance. I just rediscovered LR baggs I-beam passive and active that I had removed and replaced with a Lyric. I'm going to use it to test output level at the North and South positions available... but I'll probably end up going with the DiMarzio black angel as it makes such direct content with the sound board wood, a little bit of distance doesn't seem to matter as much.