#16
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Recording a voice, being a compact sound source, with one mike gives a coherent sound. Not so much with an acoustic guitar.
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above Last edited by rick-slo; 07-16-2017 at 12:54 AM. |
#17
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I'll have to try "Guitar Room"..... On my speed buttons I have " Sunset Chamber" "Wooden Room" and "London Plate" Don't remember the 4th off hand.
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Enjoy the Journey.... Kev... KevWind at Soundcloud KevWind at YouYube https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...EZxkPKyieOTgRD System : Studio system Avid Carbon interface , PT Ultimate 2023.12 -Mid 2020 iMac 27" 3.8GHz 8-core i7 10th Gen ,, Ventura 13.2.1 Mobile MBP M1 Pro , PT Ultimate 2023.12 Sonoma 14.4 |
#18
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I'm really surprised that so few people hear a significant difference between the rooms. To my ears each "room" sounds distinctly different. The laundry room sample is muddy by comparison to the living room which is in turn noticeably less clear and detailed than the studio. I've listened to the samples numerous times through my headphones and Adam 7 monitors and come to the same conclusion every time.
BTW - I also really appreciate the opportunity to make the comparisons. |
#19
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#20
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We have had this discussion before. Take one of your best sounding stereo recordings, open it in Audacity (for example) and listen. Then split the stereo track to mono, mute the right track and listen to the left track, and then vice versa. In each case you will hear a thinner and a substantially phasey (is this a word) sound (less on the low frequencies naturally). Try the same thing with a stereo recording of a "A Cappella" dry (no reverb) voice recording (should you be able to find one) and no problems with a phasey sound (though a different location in space of course). On an acoustic guitar recording timing differences and a slight different sound in each mike (more like you get in non-coincident miking (or the sound you get from recording multiple instruments for that matter)) fills out and solidifies the sound (not to say you can't get phasey sound in non-coincident miking also, but in coincident miking of a guitar (in the near field anyway) it's impossible not to.
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above Last edited by rick-slo; 07-16-2017 at 11:17 AM. |
#21
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Well, this isn't an orchestra, but there are examples of multiple instruments, with some being up close enough to the mic that it should trigger what you're talking about:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blAnzWqNlSc Quote:
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XY is not my favorite technique, but to my ears, at least, it works fine. The nice thing is we have options. It's hard for these little recorders to have built-in "spaced pairs", but they do allow for external mics, so you can do anything you want. All I was trying to show here was the effect of different room acoustics, and also the abilities of a simple little "point and shoot" recorder, even in lousy conditions. I think the demo works for that - I hear the differences clearly - but I'm certainly not trying to promote making XY recordings in the laundry room :-) Maybe laundry room spaced pairs would catch on, tho!
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#22
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In the first example (the laundry room), there's a harshness that you don't hear in the other two. It's especially evident in the upper frequencies. In the middle example, there's a slight muddiness on the bottom end. The bass isn't as focused as it could be in a treated room where the bass is controlled. In the last example, the bass is more focused than in the middle example and the higher frequencies still have a brilliance to them but that harshness or brittleness that is present in the first example is gone. When listening to something like this, or when trying to decide what microphone to use for a particular voice or instrument, it's not unusual to find that superior talent can sound like superior talent no matter what piece of electronics you put in front of them. So it becomes not a question of what sound good, but what sounds best.. what is providing the best compliment to that which is being recorded. Can it be subtle? Often times it's very subtle, although sometimes it's really quite obvious. Developing an ear that can hear the subtleties can take time though. Half the battle is knowing what to listen for.
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Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |
#23
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It's also a lesson in concentrating on the playing rather than worrying too much about relatively small influences. FWIW I would have been very happy with the living room... Last edited by RodB; 07-16-2017 at 01:32 PM. |
#24
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#25
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Sound wavelength phase interference happens in free space. If the microphone happens to be there it will record that. For example consider a guitar A note emanating from two different places on the guitar top and how the wavelength from each place interacts at different points in the space around the guitar. However if you don't hear it this happening, then fine, end of discussion.
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above Last edited by rick-slo; 07-16-2017 at 02:09 PM. |
#26
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To my ears, it wasn't an issue of too much bass so much as it was a issue of the bass being muddy. In other words, there was less separation of the bass notes in the untreated room and they all seemed to mush into each other. That happens because in the untreated rooms, bass frequencies will build up and rumble about with no traps to tame them. Take away the rumbling by using bass traps, and the result is the bass notes will sound crisper with better articulation.
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Jim 2023 Iris ND-200 maple/adi 2017 Circle Strings 00 bastogne walnut/sinker redwood 2015 Circle Strings Parlor shedua/western red cedar 2009 Bamburg JSB Signature Baritone macassar ebony/carpathian spruce 2004 Taylor XXX-RS indian rosewood/sitka spruce 1988 Martin D-16 mahogany/sitka spruce along with some electrics, zouks, dulcimers, and banjos. YouTube |
#27
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It's caused by early reflections - very short echos in a small hard-surfaced room, along with resulting comb filtering (frequency response changes caused by phase interactions). It's virtually impossible to remove. I could probably improve that recording with some EQ and processing, but never completely fix it. It's what the guitar sounded like in the room, and the mics captured that. In a tiny room like that, the best bet is serious room treatment, just make it dead to get rid of all the reflections. It's not ideal, but there's not much else you can do.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#28
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#29
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Anyway, way off the topic of this thread :-)
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#30
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Fair enough on the mike capsule positions. Though figure 8 capsules and in the recording with the mike surrounded by instruments it is as he said, "like recording with two stereo microphones".
Forget entirely about microphones for the moment. I would just ask, do you think there can phase interference in different points around the guitar between the wavelengths emanating from different areas of the guitar? Yea or nay?
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Derek Coombs Youtube -> Website -> Music -> Tabs Guitars by Mark Blanchard, Albert&Mueller, Paul Woolson, Collings, Composite Acoustics, and Derek Coombs "Reality is that which when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Woods hands pick by eye and ear
Made to one with pride and love To be that we hold so dear A voice from heavens above Last edited by rick-slo; 07-16-2017 at 03:28 PM. |