how to make AG stand out in a mix ?

[kurth]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

There is. When you've got your hands on either real or virtual faders, you can move more than one thing at once.

can't you do that by automating them, and even easier and more exact. Doing by hand depends on reaction time. What did marshal mcluhan say .... humans are always living 15milliseconds in the past?

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by kurth

....and longterm is something I'm definitely not interested in. I want fast , 90% effective, but now.

Well as Mick J said "Ya can't always get what ya want" cheers

[kurth]

Originally Posted by KevWind

Well as Mick J said "Ya can't always get what ya want" cheers

Kev You're old enough that you know you've got to spend your time wisely...and I'm probably older than you. And looks like Jagger got what he wanted. I remember the stones playing live on mike douglas....that musta been 64? I never thought he'd have survived this long. So, no offense, but I don't believe him. And depends on what your goals are to begin with. cheers

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by kurth

Kev You're old enough that you know you've got to spend your time wisely...and I'm probably older than you. And looks like Jagger got what he wanted. I remember the stones playing live on mike douglas....that musta been 64? I never thought he'd have survived this long. So, no offense, but I don't believe him. And depends on what your goals are to begin with. cheers

I'm 73 and remember Elvis on Ed Sullivan (56) and started playing guitar in 64 --- I think the truth of not always getting what you want, is actually pretty universal ...YMMV

"Spend your time wisely", could not agree more. And speaking of wisdom, one of the wisest sayings I've heard is ,,, "The Faster you want it, the Slower you go "

Appears as if my suggestions are no longer all that useful to you and you appear to already have the answers you need , so I think it "unwise" for me distract the thread any further, good luck with your recording ,

[kurth]

Originally Posted by KevWind

I'm 73 and remember Elvis on Ed Sullivan (56) and started playing guitar in 64 --- I think the truth of not always getting what you want, is actually pretty universal ...YMMV

"Spend your time wisely", could not agree more. And speaking of wisdom, one of the wisest sayings I've heard is ,,, "The Faster you want it, the Slower you go "

Appears as if my suggestions are no longer all that useful to you and you appear to already have the answers you need , so I think it "unwise" for me distract the thread any further, good luck with your recording ,

thanks kev...we're the same age. One thing that wasn't answered is why is console mixing superior to an automated timeline. Genuinely curious cause I have an old 8 track fostex sitting around , and my memory was it was a pita. You said you mix by separating clips on the timeline, but that doesn't allow transition, cross dissolves etc. and since I've never set foot in a real recording studio, not sure what magictricks they pull out of the hat, in that regard. thanks

[KevWind]

kurth ::
You said you mix by separating clips on the timeline, but that doesn't allow transition, cross dissolves etc.

Oy vey !! Ok just so anybody reading the above (who may not know) is not misinformed

The above statement IS completely false in both digital audio, and digital video, editing.. And is in effect disinformation (even if from ignorance)

In point of fact the total opposite is true

The only reason "cross dissolve" in digital video editing and "cross fade" in digital audio editing EXIST,,,,,, is specifically to be used on, and to smooth out,,, the playback between "separated" clip's, or regions, or objects , or whatever term the specific DAW or video editor uses..

[kurth]

...I didn't realize I posted on twitter

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by kurth

...I didn't realize I posted on twitter

Perhaps "disinformation" was a bit of hype , but I did qualify as "in effect" .. Perhaps misinformation would be more accurate and is clearly not limited to twitter

And just so ya know Mixcraft has a very slick video automatic cross dissolve feature when you drag the edge of one separated video clip over the adjacent separated clip

[kurth]

Difference of opinions is not disinformation, nor misinformation. You're getting confused. There's alot of paths to get where you need to go. And the only thing that's important is the end result, not the doctrine. And that auto feature is good for making a comp of 10 different song together , but not much else. You'll get to see my result soon. I'm sure to hear some more 'opinions'. My order of importance is lyrics, song structure, sufficient musicmanship to accomplish the material, and lastly, wasting time on a computer. We obviously have our goal orders reversed.

[Chipotle]

Originally Posted by kurth

My order of importance is lyrics, song structure, sufficient musicmanship to accomplish the material, and lastly, wasting time on a computer. We obviously have our goal orders reversed.

I don't think anyone is "reversing" that order... but if you want others to hear your work, and you want a recording to capture the vision of a piece you have in your head, you're going to have to spend some time on the computer, and some work to understand what to do in the studio and on the computer screen. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but even if you have silk and a beautiful design, you still need some sewing skills.

And I'll answer your question about automation vs manual faders: I don't think there's a difference in the end. Whether you get a curve by moving a slider with your hand or by drawing it in with a mouse, you can get pretty much the same curve. Heck, if you have a control surface, you can capture the hand movement and then save that automation. And it sure beats having 3-4 people in the control room on mixdown, all moving faders and punching buttons at various times, because you had to do it "live" and you got one chance. I still hear small mistakes I made on "mix moves" years later when I listen back to some tracks.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

This was mixed live in the studio -- check out the whole Soundcloud page while you're there. Lots of fingers moving faders. These things don't exactly mix themselves. :-)

That's pretty. I have the Jay Ungar And Molly Mason album of the same name and that recording is right up there with their version.

Originally Posted by kurth

My order of importance is lyrics, song structure, sufficient musicmanship to accomplish the material, and lastly, wasting time on a computer. We obviously have our goal orders reversed.

C'mon man, no one said that. No one even implied that. And to say that those who spend time in post-processing on a computer are "wasting time" is unnecessary and reeks of your own frustrations. You came here asking for help and then, instead of being gracious, you argue with people. We can all disagree without being disagreeable. Please try to do better.

[kurth]

Originally Posted by Chipotle

I don't think anyone is "reversing" that order... but if you want others to hear your work, and you want a recording to capture the vision of a piece you have in your head, you're going to have to spend some time on the computer, and some work to understand what to do in the studio and on the computer screen. You can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but even if you have silk and a beautiful design, you still need some sewing skills.

And I'll answer your question about automation vs manual faders: I don't think there's a difference in the end. Whether you get a curve by moving a slider with your hand or by drawing it in with a mouse, you can get pretty much the same curve. Heck, if you have a control surface, you can capture the hand movement and then save that automation. And it sure beats having 3-4 people in the control room on mixdown, all moving faders and punching buttons at various times, because you had to do it "live" and you got one chance. I still hear small mistakes I made on "mix moves" years later when I listen back to some tracks.

Obviously that's been the mixing assumption I've been working with. And like I quoted...humans live 15miliseconds in the past...so I'd assume mouses are better imho. And you're right...however...I'm not going to have a $200,000 recordingstudio nor a 4000 dollar guitar...nor the best pickup system...I'm just gonna have what I've got...and there's limitations. Limitations with my talent...limitations with my skills...and there's limitations with my equipment. Can't change life. thanks chipotle
ps....and the only thing I don't have any limititions with is my imagination and 'imagination can be wings'

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by kurth

Difference of opinions is not disinformation, nor misinformation. You're getting confused. There's alot of paths to get where you need to go. And the only thing that's important is the end result, not the doctrine. And that auto feature is good for making a comp of 10 different song together , but not much else. You'll get to see my result soon. I'm sure to hear some more 'opinions'. My order of importance is lyrics, song structure, sufficient musicmanship to accomplish the material, and lastly, wasting time on a computer. We obviously have our goal orders reversed.

Again you are wrong , What you stated in post #50 and what I replied it is definitely not a matter of "difference of opinion" and I am not "confused", as to what can be done in the workflow of a DAW when separating clips ,, it is simple fact based, either yes you can do this or that,, or no you can't--- plain and simple .. no opinion involved

In Post #50 You stated and I quote

"You said you mix by separating clips on the timeline, but that doesn't allow transition, cross dissolves etc."

Yes I mix by separating clips BUT your statement

but that doesn't allow transition, cross dissolves etc."

Which is flat out wrong and is definitely misinformed--- and the fact of that being wrong,, is a fact, not opinion .. You are not only misinformed about what can't be done with separated audio clips ,, you are confused about the terminology = "cross dissolve" is a video editing term -- cross fade is the audio term .

And that auto feature is good for making a comp of 10 different song together, but not much else.

Again it is you who are confused. That feature I mentioned is a Mixcraft video feature which I clearly stated was a "video" feature that HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH audio comping a song together. In video it can be used in multi cam or to have different effects on different clips

AND also my using separated clips to adjust individual clip gains is an audio feature -- that also has nothing to do with comping a song together ---- it is a way to adjust the level of a single separated clips in the audio waveform timeline AND DEFINITELY allows for audio crossfade transition.

To clarify while clip gain adjustments is arguably more precise,, riding the faders as Brent mentioned ( when done well) is faster and more efficient for adjusting level But either one is still ultimately personal preference.

Unfortunately it appears it is your unwillingness to spend the time to actually learn what is possible in a DAW that is causing you to not know what is possible, and maybe not understand what you don't know,,,, and thus seems to compel you make absurd statements about what can or can't be done, based on your lack of knowledge of the subject . And you also seem to be confusing the objective facts of what is possible on a DAW with your subjective preference for using a DAW.

NO ONE is questioning your preferred method ( that is entirely up to you ) ----we are questioning your uniformed declarations of what one can or can't do in a DAW ... And suggesting with more knowledge of how to use your DAW you may be able to get to your final result "faster" and more "efficiently" (which was your stated goal )
So you might try considering the suggestions and stop telling us what can or can't be done ..... What is a "waste of time on the computer" is too keep arguing with or dismissing the suggestions we are making, given it was you who asked for them in the first place ... just a thought