#1
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Acoustic archtop: volume difference between acoustic bronze and flat wound strings?
Hi all,
I recently purchased a Bourgeois acoustic archtop. I am completely enthralled with it, and have been enjoying a change of pace from my flat tops. It is currently strung with medium bronze strings. I'm not sure if they are phosphor or 80/20, and I don't know what brand. They do sound good, but I'm thinking about trying some Thomastik Jazz Swing series flat wounds for a bit more mellow, jazzy sound. My concern is volume. My guess would be that the flat wounds wouldn't be as loud as the acoustic bronze strings, but I have nothing to back that up, just a hunch. I would prefer not to lose any volume, and would welcome an increase in volume since I play it acoustically 99% of the time. Any input is greatly appreciated! |
#2
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I would recommend phosphor bronze strings on it, they will be richer than 80/20's and still show the voice of the guitar. Archtops, by there very nature, are going to brighter, louder, with less sustain, than flat tops, be careful trying to turn an archtop into a flat top by going "mellow". Flat wound strings are very dull sounding acoustically, most jazz players use them, but 9 out of 10 times, these archtops are being amplified with magnetic pickups and run though guitar amps, which show off more of the mid-range character of the guitar.
FWI, I use light (12-54) phosphor bronze strings on my Eastman Pagelli. The guitar sounds MUCH better acoustically with these strings than any nickel/stainless steel/etc strings. Plugged in, it is terrific, but you must have a magnetic pickup with adjustable pole pieces to make phosphor bronze strings work. Jimmy PS. Does the guitar have a magnetic pickup on it?
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Avian Skylark Pono 0000-30 Gardiner Parlor Kremona Kiano Ramsay Hauser Cordoba C10 Chris Walsh Archtop Gardiner Concert Taylor Leo Kottke Gretsch 6120 Pavan TP30 Aria A19c Hsienmo MJ Ukuleles: Cocobolo 5 string Tenor Kanilea K3 Koa Kanilea K1 Walnut Tenor Kala Super Tenor Rebel Super Concert Nehemiah Covey Tenor Mainland Mahogany Tenor Mainland Cedar/Rosewood Tenor |
#3
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Hi Jimmy,
Thanks for the input. I'll probably still try some flat wounds just to see for myself. I can live with the dull sound, but want to know about the volume differences. Part of the fun of an archtop, for me, is the amazing selection of strings. People can and have put just about any kind of strings on archtops. The guitar does have a pickup, but it is a Fishman piezo type, so string selection won't affect my ability to play through an amp. |
#4
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Hopefully Howard Emerson and some of the more experienced archtop players will chime in on this thread. I'm about as far away from an expert on archtop guitars as it's possible to be, but I did own a nice handmade pure acoustic archtop for a while and have played a bunch of really nice old ones (including one of Mother Maybelle Carter's original Gibson L-5's.) So I do have some background (just not deep background) with this fascinating style of instrument.
I mostly agree with Jimmy's post, but would just encourage you to try a wide variety of different string alloys and gauges on it until you hit upon the combination that gives you the sound, projection and playability that you want. Archtop guitars can be just as individualistic as any other acoustic instruments. So try the Thomastiks, try some of the more traditional jazzbo strings, get a real assortment and run through them fairly quickly so that you compare one set to the next while they're all still fresh and good-sounding. Without having the guitar right here in my music room to try for myself, I'd hesitate to recommend one alloy over another. Anyway, congratulations and welcome to the wonderful world of archtop guitars. Next you need to get a fedora to go with it, a double-breasted suit and maybe some spats for your shoes..... A Bourgeois archtop guitar.... and the perfect accessory to go with it: A Thompson Submachine with the drum magazine... Have fun! Wade Hampton ".45 ACP" Miller |
#5
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I should point out that I am in no way a jazz guitarist, but rather, just an old fingerstyle player. I just love archtops, and enjoy them aurally and visually. Is that your Bourgois that Wade posted? Dana does really nice work, you don't see his archtops very often. Jimmy
__________________
Avian Skylark Pono 0000-30 Gardiner Parlor Kremona Kiano Ramsay Hauser Cordoba C10 Chris Walsh Archtop Gardiner Concert Taylor Leo Kottke Gretsch 6120 Pavan TP30 Aria A19c Hsienmo MJ Ukuleles: Cocobolo 5 string Tenor Kanilea K3 Koa Kanilea K1 Walnut Tenor Kala Super Tenor Rebel Super Concert Nehemiah Covey Tenor Mainland Mahogany Tenor Mainland Cedar/Rosewood Tenor |
#6
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I also couldn't tell you whether that's his Thompson submachine gun, either... Wade Hampton "Both Are Out Of My Price Range" Miller |
#7
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Thanks for the comments and comic relief, Wade!
Jimmy, I've appreciated your input as well. That is not my guitar, but the one below is. I've heard about the half rounds too, and they're on my list. Out of curiosity, what phosphor bronze strings do you use? |
#8
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Quote:
Jimmy
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Avian Skylark Pono 0000-30 Gardiner Parlor Kremona Kiano Ramsay Hauser Cordoba C10 Chris Walsh Archtop Gardiner Concert Taylor Leo Kottke Gretsch 6120 Pavan TP30 Aria A19c Hsienmo MJ Ukuleles: Cocobolo 5 string Tenor Kanilea K3 Koa Kanilea K1 Walnut Tenor Kala Super Tenor Rebel Super Concert Nehemiah Covey Tenor Mainland Mahogany Tenor Mainland Cedar/Rosewood Tenor |
#9
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Beautiful Eastman, Jimmy! The Pagelli is a very beautiful guitar, I've always really liked that design. I owned an Eastman AR904 for a few months, it too was a wonderful guitar. It played like absolute butter and had a great sound. I'm still not sure why I sold that one - certainly in a flurry of GAS for some other guitar that I wanted more at the time. I didn't have it long enough to experiment with different strings like I plan to this time.
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#10
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__________________
Avian Skylark Pono 0000-30 Gardiner Parlor Kremona Kiano Ramsay Hauser Cordoba C10 Chris Walsh Archtop Gardiner Concert Taylor Leo Kottke Gretsch 6120 Pavan TP30 Aria A19c Hsienmo MJ Ukuleles: Cocobolo 5 string Tenor Kanilea K3 Koa Kanilea K1 Walnut Tenor Kala Super Tenor Rebel Super Concert Nehemiah Covey Tenor Mainland Mahogany Tenor Mainland Cedar/Rosewood Tenor |
#11
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#12
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I've tried the Thomastik-Infeld flatwound Swing sets, as well as the D'Addario Chromes. I experienced a significant loss in acoustic volume. It's like putting a sock in a singer's mouth. They might sound somewhat robust immediately after restringing, but come back after a break and see what you think.
I enjoyed the lack of finger squeak, and I think the strings are somewhat appropriate if I'm in the mood for dark, quiet sounds. However I think nylon string guitars are even better for that kind of experience. I like using my archtop for Freddie Green-style comping, and I prefer the chords to have some bite. I really like this kind of sound: http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/lukenelson After lots of experimentation (Thomastik Infeld Jazz, Spectrum, and Plectrum Strings, D'Addario Chromes and Flat Tops, SIT Silencers, etc.) I've come to the conclusion that PB roundwounds sound best on my archtop. I have a custom Verri that I specifically ordered without electronics: |
#13
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Thanks for the input, brahmz. I may very well determine that PB roundwounds are the best as well. I still want to do some experimenting first though.
That's a beautiful guitar you have there, thanks for sharing! |