Why aren't acoustic archtops more popular?

[cameron]

Pretty subjective...question,if I understand the question;and,I'd be answering in fairly general terms.

Not sure I've ever owned a "soft" 50mm pick;I use a 60 Blue Chip for my archtop and for mandolin. A 50 would be fine for me;but,soft(?) I tend not to like floppy picks;no room for dynamics. I can play softly with a 60 or fortissimo! With a soft pick you don't have the options.

Fungus,I think I play some of that "hippie rock" stuff. A good archtop is most versatile. You wanna hit a loud G-run/Bluegrassy thing? It will roar,comp,chug,meaty rhythm or sparkle from a solid mid-range to shimmering trebles. It'll rock,shuffle,finger-pick...whatever.

I've always played flattop guitars in the past;but,I'm a newly,dedicated arch-head now,bordering on snobby for pure acoustic guitar. I won't put any kind of pickup on my mandolin either.

Maybe the electric option should be left out of the equation(regarding archtops/flattops),as there are so many other variations of equipment to consider(individual instruments having their own personality),like string gauge,scale-length,action,picks,and style of the operator.

I think it was a wise man who said,"There's only two kinds of music;good and bad."

For me,the surprising(amazing) thing about a good archtop is the transformation that takes place between strumming/comping/chopping,or even ringing-open chords, to single-note and double-stop fills and breaks.

[wierdOne]

Originally Posted by Duncan121

Just out of curiosity I'm would gather that archtop players (jazz focused) typically play with very hard picks for their solo runs and loud comping needs. Hypathetically If I wanted to use an acoustic archtop as a strummer and play folk style vocal accompaniment music, (I understand that my tone would likely suffer and the lack of pronounced sustain would be a horrible fit for my style), how would strumming with a medium to soft pick sound. It would seem if archtops are naturally loud that a soft pick would mellow them out some for a more mainstram application. Has anyone who owns a nice carved arch ever agressively strummed their arch with say a medium pick or even a .50 softy. Just curious....

I ask because I beleive any acoustic instruments tonal characteristics are drastically effected by both technique, attack, and the picks we use. We are used to hearing archtops played in jazz, swing, and gypsy style contexts and thus we have trained are ears to judge them in those settings. Can't we infer that making modifications to our playing techniques could meen archtops become options for us strummers?

I play everything with a Dunlop 2mm pick... Electric, Selmer (gypsy guitar), Flattop acoustic, and an archtop guitar..

Altering how hard I'm clenching the pick, determines the dynamics of how the pick acts against the strings... if I just loosely hold the pick, it acts like a thinner pick, and is good for strumming.... just by holding with a firm grip really makes your pick attack punchy and powerful... great for rapid fire soloing...

When I change to a thinner pick, I feel I lose total dynamic control over the instruments... so.. I can't answer your changing pick question..

but I don't think that a good acoustic archtop needs any "taming" by a softer pick....

I don't think any of us can theorize anything about how the guitar will react in your hands... you're going to play like you play on any guitar..

I don't know where you are (playing wise) but there came a time in my playing life when I developed the ability to "learn how to play" different types of guitars...

A telecaster is a GREAT guitar.... If you know how to play it...

An archtop is a GREAT guitar.... if you know how to play it...

A flattop acoustic is a GREAT guitar.... if you know how to play it..

there are different approaches you need to take for any of the guitars..

just like a Jeep, a Porshe, and a Cadillac are all automobiles.. but... you gotta learn how to drive them all different.

For instance, one of the Doc Watson tunes I cover is Deep River Blues. On a tele, since the strings are easier to play than an acoustic instrument.. it's easy to throw in flurries of notes while i'm dead thumbing out the rhythm... on an archtop... it's fun to dig in to the bass notes and really pull at the melody lines with my fingers... on a flat top... the dead thumbing gives you a real punchy crisp bass line and it sounds so good when you comp chords fingerstyle with some hammer ons and pull offs...


Go play an Eastman 16" non cutaway, or a 1930's gibson L-4, or an L-50 for that matter.. but... don't try to play the songs you normally play like you would "normally" play them on a flat top acoustic.... spend a little time with the guitar... feel how it responds to how you pick out each note. If it's properly deigned, it should have a real woody response... plump... punchy....

not too loud... but... just right..

don't just pick one up and expect it to sound as good as a flat top does to your strumming... because you have to learn how to make an archtop sound good.... just like you had to learn how to make a flattop sound good...

[Duncan121]

well said. Thank you for your response. This in away confirms what I was thinking. That any guitars tone regardless of type will be effected by technique and thus technique must be adjusted to find A suitable tone to the players liking. In addition pick size/thickness would make a difference and contribute to the adjusting of technique.

[JoeCharter]

Originally Posted by wierdOne

there are different approaches you need to take for any of the guitars.

Go play an Eastman 16" non cutaway, or a 1930's gibson L-4, or an L-50 for that matter.. but... don't try to play the songs you normally play like you would "normally" play them on a flat top acoustic.

I couldn't agree more.

You can strum your favourite Springsteen song on an archtop if you will but it won't sound quite right and IMO it's a waste of the instrument's tonal qualities.

Archtops typically have less sustain and a short decay. That's the sound that most people think of when they think of traditional jazz guitar -- and that's miles away from the traditional flat top guitar sound.

[ac319]

Originally Posted by Howard Emerson

Joe,
Fast forward to 3:40 on this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6Gho...eature=related

This is from Gibson's Golden Age of Archtops: A 1927 Gibson L-5, 16" with the Master Model label.

It does everything that flat top lovers say archtops can't do..........I paid $35 for it back in 1976.........

HE

That was amazing. I'm an archtop lover with my Harmony archtop. I'd love another archtop someday but it'll have to be the right one. Thanks for sharing!

[bobframe]

So glad they're not popular.

[Rollie]

Howard..Thanks for the archtop awakening ... and the youtube links are also liked ...

[Bingoccc]

My first and only guitar for years was an old arch top Kalamazoo. It always had a tight nasal sound to me that I never could warm up to.

[Taylorplayer]

Originally Posted by riovine

Well, I just recently got a custom archtop made for me by Mark Campellone.


Here are some pics of my new Campellone:

Just beautiful...

[Taylorplayer]

Originally Posted by bobframe

So glad they're not popular.

Most beautiful!! Someday I will own another one...

[Howard Emerson]

Originally Posted by Rollie

Howard..Thanks for the archtop awakening ... and the youtube links are also liked ...

Hi Rollie,
Looks like an old thread has got new legs.............

Thanks for the kind words.

Herewith, though, a guy who REALLY knows how to play the songs that were new before the guitars were being made:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NabVzgONnk

Craig plays with a flat pick and his ring finger, and I swear he's 'reading' the music.............I can't figure out what he's looking at because he doesn't seem concerned with his hands!!

Enjoy.

HE

[NoPicks]

There is another brand in the "affordable" archtop mix that I haven't seen mentioned yet

The Loar


http://www.theloar.com/products.html

From what I've been able to find out so far, this is an American-based company doing the actual manufacturing in China. Whatever your feelings on that particular subject, it certainly is nice to see somebody doing new builds based on the earliest L-5 specs. All-laminate in the lowest end of the range, all-solid (including the carved tops) in upper end

With the Street price of the top-of-the-line 700 series acoustics running only slightly over $1k, and the 600 series significantly under that, this brand is looking like something well worth investigating further. The hardest part for me is finding a bricks-and-mortar store that stocks them

[Taylorplayer]

Originally Posted by NoPicks

There is another brand in the "affordable" archtop mix that I haven't seen mentioned yet

The Loar


http://www.theloar.com/products.html

From what I've been able to find out so far, this is an American-based company doing the actual manufacturing in China. Whatever your feelings on that particular subject, it certainly is nice to see somebody doing new builds based on the earliest L-5 specs. All-laminate in the lowest end of the range, all-solid (including the carved tops) in upper end

With the Street price of the top-of-the-line 700 series acoustics running only slightly over $1k, and the 600 series significantly under that, this brand is looking like something well worth investigating further. The hardest part for me is finding a bricks-and-mortar store that stocks them

I saw a pretty impressive clip of one of these being demo'd. Anyone here have "hands on" experience with one? Let's just talk about the guitar - OK - and leave the politics aside, please.

[brad4d8]

Originally Posted by Taylorplayer

I saw a pretty impressive clip of one of these being demo'd. Anyone here have "hands on" experience with one? Let's just talk about the guitar - OK - and leave the politics aside, please.

I played a Loar archtop a month or so back at a friends shop. I forget the model number, but it was their lowest price solid top model-carved if their catalogue is to be believed. It had a nice full sound, played easily. It seemed to have more bass than a lot of archtops, though I'd like to do an A/B with my Artist Award, hard to say how much might have been the room. FWIW, he also carried Loar flattops, and the one I played was equally impressive. If I were in the market for another archtop, I'd definitely consider one, it would be a good jam guitar that I wouldn't have any qualms about letting others play-I'm a little tight with my AA.
Brad

[Taylorplayer]

Originally Posted by brad4d8

I played a Loar archtop a month or so back at a friends shop. I forget the model number, but it was their lowest price solid top model-carved if their catalogue is to be believed. It had a nice full sound, played easily. It seemed to have more bass than a lot of archtops, though I'd like to do an A/B with my Artist Award, hard to say how much might have been the room. FWIW, he also carried Loar flattops, and the one I played was equally impressive. If I were in the market for another archtop, I'd definitely consider one, it would be a good jam guitar that I wouldn't have any qualms about letting others play-I'm a little tight with my AA.
Brad

Thanks Brad... I appreciate the info.